Who's greater? Duran or Mayweather Jr?

But people who are boxing judges have said they think Castillo won, they just weren't the ones rendering the official verdict.

No one doubts Floyd is a special talent. I just doubt the significance of his 0. Its a pretty thing to market to casuals, but for me that's about it. No one would try to argue Mayweather is greater than Robinson despite these losses. A loss on the record has never ever been a barrier greatness.

 

You asked if we should watch Duran Lawlor. I was giving you better alternatives to watch.

 

People rate Floyd > Duran coz he's undefeated? Wtf?

 

Some people have really bought into the hype about this 0,depsite the fact that being a top tier ATG has never been about being undefeated.

 

I mean that's part of boxing. There are people who would have scored forJacobs over Golovkin. I just think if all 3 judges believe that you lost and it was a close competitive fight you probably could have given a better effort. You can't sit there and say you couldn't have possibly done anything different to be more convincing.

So with that line of logic I don't get how people (not YOU) who cry crocodile tears as if Castillo got "robbed". Modern fans always get dramatic as if "everyone" scored a fight a certain way. If the punch stats and rounds were close yet all 3 judges didn't give it to you, best you could argue is you deserved a draw.

So if Mayweather couldn't convince 3 judges that night it would definitely hurt his legacy. But given hiw good his legacy ended up being, that would be going from a 100 to a 96 score, both of which are an A+. It's negligible, but noticeable.

And to clarify I don't think a loss is a barrier to greatness or that Mayweather is better than Robinson. I just think that if you literally beat every opponent you face that counts for something in the all time great rankings so long as you were facing good competition. There isn't any logic in saying that retiring undefeated doesn't enhance your legacy and greatness because it undoubtedly does (and to clarify once again I don't think it's the end all be all criteria, but it's an X factor that cannot be ignored).

 

Taken in isolation retiring undefeated is a positive. After all, we wouldn't even mention Ottke or Menayothin if it wasn't for that.

The best way for me to explain my opinion on this is using a business studies phrase: opportunity cost. The opportunity cost of retiring undefeated is, imo capable of being an overall net loss.

Not always, but it can be.

The only way it wouldn't be is if someone is actually going to have a career where they beat every world class talent possible to face. Where someone ends their career and there's no case of "what if" but I highly doubt such a fighter will ever exist.

Although Jon Jones seems to be doing a good job of it in Ufc.

 

You'll get no arguments from me when it comes to looking under every rock for a good opponent at their best. Mayweather did miss out on plenty of opportunities in that regard.

I still think it gives him an edge over Duran due to Duran's inconsistency and losses to sub par opponents. It's one thing to step up in class, try hard, and then lose and its another thing to lose to people who have no business being in the ring with you. That never happened to Mayweather so it's apples and oranges.

 

Duran's greatest win is canceled out by his worst, most inexcusable loss. After that, taking Leonard I and II out of it, his record actually doesn't stack up to Mayweather's and that's all there is to that. Yeah, Mayweather doesn't have an SRL level win. He also doesn't have an SRL II level loss, which is one of the most damning losses in boxing ATG history. I don't think that can be disputed.

 

Sven Ottke is unbeaten and therefore better than Ali, Duran, SRL, and SRR.

 

For me Duran gets a bad rap for inconsistency.

He only lost twice below 154 pounds and that was to DeJesus and Leonard, both of whom he holds victories over.

His record at LMW and MW is patchy but tbh he had no business fighting there in the first place.

In fact this is a good example. Had Duran never fought De Jesus, Leonard or above WW he'd have been unbeaten but his legacy would be far far worse imo.

 

Well I can forgive some off the losses above welterweight since that's far above his natural weight and past his prime (especially light heavy). Similarly i don't penalize Robinson much for his light heavyweight disaster.

The problem is one of his best wins that helps his overall standing is Barkley at MW. It becomes quite the pick and choose fest if you want to include this win and gloss over the losses.

 

That's just the way it is though. Look at Hopkins, can we really hold any losses past 40 against him? And he achieved great things at that age.

Duran wasn't a great MW, he was a great fighter who proved capable of beating MWs.

 

I honestly don't know who actually has watched Duran's lightweight era and understands how good it is, but some people are saying Duran wouldn't be above Floyd if he hadn't had beaten Leonard. He would be still.

Buchanan, Ishimatsu, and DeJesus are all better wins than the likes of Canelo, and old Mosley & Pacquiao. Certainly better than Castillo, Corrales and Genaro. Palomino was better than Cotto, and Barkley and Moore is just the icing on top. Add in Leonard, even count in Duran's losses if you're so inclined, and Duran should clearly come out on top.

Plus, his run at lightweight on its own is legendary. 7 years, barely lost a round and was the best fighter ever while doing so.

 

What disaster ?!??
The Suga Man was leading on points in that fight. He simply lost due to the scorching heat. He was the better boxer that night.

 

The size of his opponent was a factor too, let's not be facetious. Maxim was still a world champ and obviously not as skilled as Robinson but knew what he was doing and had a significant size advantage (especially in the clinches. Ever had someone lean on you and wear you down in scorching heat while having more weight?).

Maxim was not only much bigger he was extremely durable and only has 1 stoppage loss in more than 100 fighters. A guy moving up from 2 weight classes has almost zero chance of knocking out such an opponent. Thus Robinson has even more pressure and anxiety to be on his toes and fight a perfect fight. That drains you.

When i said disaster i wasn't implying that it was a 1 sided beat down.