Who's higher P4P: Ali or Duran?

Are you coming on to me?

Oh, cripes, it is Valentines Day, isn't it?

All in good fun, from this side, at least.

 

I'm 6'1.

That wasn't what my argument pertained to at all though.

I guess it's difficult getting it across. There are more top Heavyweights than any other division historically, because there is a much bigger pool due to it being the only openweight division, not because they're bigger or more talented in general. The Heavyweights span over 100 pounds, other divisions generally span about 5 pounds.

If there were 500 people, and you split them up in groups, most groups spanning 5 pounds, one spanning over 100 pounds, the group spanning 100 pounds would likely be the biggest group, due to simply having lesser limitations and a larger variety.

 

Don't let our little squirrelly intruder dazzle you.

Aside from the highly skilled greats, most guys 201 pounds aren't going to make a stand against a full-blown HW.

Asians and Hispanics have always been an overepresented demographic in boxing -and they certainly don't swell the ranks of the HWs.

Consider also that bigger men have other -less painful- oppurtunities to make money in other sports. White men have certain socio-economic advantages as well and are also more channelled into the business world for instance... and the northern europeans among them are usually larger men. Boxing has always been a poor man's sport. And poor men, in the U.S. at least which is where it has always been centered, were often Jewish and Italian then and Hispanic now. These are smaller men.

 

Ali.

 

So now we've come to poorer = ethnic = smaller = more = better.

Spiffy.

 

My point is, while most of these men are smaller, most don't fit into one single 5 pound weight class, but rather a variety of them. Heavyweights are a single openweight division, and while most men are not of that size, there are much lesser restrictions than any other class weight-wise.

Also, there have been plenty of smaller HW's, guys like Marciano, Dempsey, Louis, and Frazier were on the smaller end weight wise.

 

So...because the weight class spans more pounds you believe there are more people out there in that class?
How about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution

And remember we are talking boxing weight and not football weight...if you know what I mean...

 

Anyway, I'll go. I'm like a hooligan, derailing this topic for no reason at all.

Goodnight.

 

Again, I am not arguing that because the HW's span unlimited weight, that they have more potential than any of the other weight classes combined, but moreso than any single weight class spanning 5 pounds.

The Heavyweights are historically the best division. As I said originally, before we got into all this mess, name me one weight class where more single division(or fighters who excelled more at one division) fighters are top ATG's than the HW's.

 

Your listed on Myspace as 180cm, 5' 11" ish.

 

Boxing has historically been, and still is, to a large extent a poor man's sport. If you don't know that then go back to the general forum with your peers.

American ethnics have always been overrepresented in such things as poverty, crime, and boxing. That's a fact. The ethnics groups in America who were immigrants, or the sons of immigrants and living in crowded urban conditions conducive to such things as crime and violence include the Irish, Italian, Germans, Jews, Hispanics, Portugese, and to a lesser extent the Chinese, Japanese, and Polish.
-That's off the top of my head and is probably not all-inclusive.

The point is that it is not a miracle that at the turn of the century the Irish were overrunning the sport, that in the twenties the Jews were formidable, the thirties and forties saw an influx of more Italians, and the blacks were fighting there way throughout these periods because other opportunities were always closed off to them here in the U.S.

What ethnic group is most dominant now? Would you not say Hispanics?

It is no coincidence that those disadvantaged demographic groups found a place in boxing and excelled. It is a coincidence that most of these groups were smaller men. And finally, it is not "non-sensical" at all to assert with confidence that the smaller weight classes had more class in terms of talent because there were more fighters coming in from the Bronx, from below the border, from Miami, from the rust belt in the midwest, from the urban ghettoes to fill the ranks quickly.

"Spiffy" Maybe so. "Bluster"? Nah.

The next time you want to insert yourself into a debate, do so. I really don't care, but if you do, at least come armed with something besides spitballs.

 

I don't think I've updated it since I started over two years ago, and 180cm is 6'0. 30cm to a foot, 30 x 6=180.

 

I understand your point. Lets say you have two people - One heavyweight and one lightweight, and they are both blessed with amazing talent. It will be the heavyweight who will have a better chance of being an ATG because of the opposition talent pool is not as deep. Because, as we agree with...lightweights are more skilled on average.

 

Yes, but that doesn't overcome my point that the lower weight classes have more class. Guys can start off as WWs and then rise up 13 pounds as they hit their late 20s and compete as MWs. Many featherweights end up in the LW division. These are guys who will never see 200 pounds... and there are more of them than English/Irish/Scandinavian Heavies in the sport and always have been.

Marciano was not often outgunned by giants. Neither was Louis. Neither was Dempsey, and when Frazier's hit list had many cruisers. They all would have had a tougher time with Lewis and Bowe and co.

 

Sorry for throwing back to page 2 of this topic, but I think there are some good points in here.