Who's the best fighter that Prime Mike Tyson can beat?

Actually, while Douglas had jabbed just prior to I don’t know that Mikes uppercut was an exact counter to that punch.

However it was, that was a terrific uppercut - an ATG punch in my book - it would’ve made Jack Johnson proud - strangely, Mike’s single shot power is a bit underrated these days - Tillis did originally nominate Mike as the hardest puncher he ever faced - before later opting for a more superlative election of the Acorn - while, after switching horses, perversely underrating Mikes power at the same time.

I’m probably one of only a few who give Mike a hearing on that KD and the alleged long count.

In my view, it was a long count and the ref Meyran, either consciously or consciously, also notably slowed his meter as he approached the business end of the coun. Perhaps like all of us, he too was taken up with the hitherto upset that had been unfolding -

I personally don’t think Buster could’ve arisen earlier than he did - he barely got to his feet as it was and was still unsteady when he did arise.

I’m the last one to afford excuses but I do see a case for Mike perhaps being a bit hard done by with that count.

Comebacks, even via a single punch KO, are a real and creditable way to secure a win. It’s arguable that Mike did what was needed to secure such a win.

If Douglas was counted out it would’ve at least presented as one fight which Mike came back to win despite being well behind.

However, we were all taken up with the Cinderella story and vibe to Buster’s performance and ultimate victory.

No one wanted to hear anything that might detract from that story - so I think any complaints re the alleged long count were/are a bit too easily dismissed as whining and making excuses.

 

Douglas got countered with that uppercut because he overcommitted with his jab bringing his head over his lead leg.

 

That sequence was the sloppiest Douglas was in the whole fight. Perhaps a bit complacent but perhaps a bit tired also.

He had already fallen into Mike a few times - with Mike having tried a few uppercuts already - but after jabbing in that particular moment, Buster didn’t fall in and it gave Mike just enough room to scythe the uppercut through.

 

That's default. But very different styles...

Lyle was a big tall man, just like George. George didn't have too many problems with men shorter than him. George had problems pushing Lyle off...he wouldn't have that problem with Mike (look how Mike got manhandled in both Holyfield fights. Foreman was far stronger).

 

Lets get some sort of barometer going. What fighters did Tyson send to hospital besides Holyfield when he had to have his ear reattached?

 

Yes he is. I can't favor anyone over a peak Mike Tyson at the top of his game.

TYSON-FOREMAN: The thing that sticks out the most in my mind is how fast Tyson was for a big man. He really moved around like a middleweight. I think Foreman has too many open gaps to be exploited by someone like Tyson: a two-handed combination puncher with blazing speed. Watch Foreman's fights and how he dealt with speed. He never, I repeat NEVER handled it well. Foreman is also very vulnerable to the straight right; Tyson has a dandy, and he can bring it from way out of range like he did against Berbick.

Much is made of Foreman's strength, but look: at their best, Tyson is actually a tiny bit heavier than Foreman. Sure, Foreman can push, but Tyson has great torso movement and mobility on his feet. Foreman will not simply be able to push and swing as he did with the one-gear (forward) Frazier. In fact, the pushing could lead to counter openings for Tyson from either hand. I actually think Tyson became passive on the inside because he didn't need to fight inside. His fabulous midrange attack was all he needed. So he was content with having the ref break. But watch the Tubbs fight to see how lethal Tyson could be in an inside brawl.

Foreman, with his relative slowness, can only hope to land single shots, which will be tremendous, but not enough to get the job done because Tyson has a tremendous chin. Another myth in my view is Foreman's chin: Ali was shaking Foreman good with single shots early, and Lyle felled him twice and had him reeling all over the place with single shots.

So, I say Tyson gets to Foreman first, early, brutally, and categorically.


TYSON-LEWIS: Tyson's style was designed for taller man and although Lennox is very tall and later in his career got very strong, his chin and his lackadaisical technique would allow Tyson to penetrate. The difference between a focussed Tyson with Rooney in the corner and that later version is extreme. And in their actual fight Tyson came thisclose to landing left hooks, all the while Emanuel Steward screaming at Lennox between rounds to get him out of there before he gets nailed. Steward knew Lennox would be searching for the soft spot on the canvas.

It's a tough match up only because Lewis did have a bit of skill himself but remember Lennox Lewis is a momentum fighter and if he manages to get off 30 jabs a round he's pretty tough to beat because he controls the distance pretty well. But Tyson was a busy enough fighter that puts so much pressure on you that Lewis would have difficulty keeping up the pace. Remember in his prime Tyson was the one who had more stamina than Lewis.

I think Tyson's chin and toughness would win the day. Tyson never had trouble with tall men, it's nonsense he beat nothing but taller men in his career. He may not have KO'd all the taller men but if winning a fight 9-1 or 10-2 is struggling then maybe he's a lot better than people give him credit for. Tyson would probably stop him before round 8.

TYSON-ALI: Cus knew what it took to beat Ali. And once he knew the spat of Ali imitators on the amateur and future pro horizon he assembled the perfect foil to counter the Ali clones. Now I know they're not Ali, but that style was all Tyson fought from his inception. From smokers to the ams and pros that's all Tyson ever fought were Ali clones.

Look who Ali struggled against: Frazier, Norton, left hooks by Good Ol' Enry Cooper and the like. Now take someone who's bigger, faster, had power in either hand, an incredible defense and speed to rival Ali's own. For Ali speed won't be enough. It's enough to get halfway there but despite being an underrated power puncher he didn't have enough power to get Tyson's respect. I see Tyson tapping his chin in defiance if Ali were to get off clean shots.

Now Ali also has the best resume at heavyweight but you can't take your resume in the ring with you. This is a one-off battle at their particular peak. I believe each fighter has the goods to exploit the other's weaknesses but while Tyson has seen a number of Ali clones, Ali has never seen anyone quite like Tyson.

Mike Tyson is Muhammad Ali's worst nightmare in the flesh.

 

Foreman wishes he could fight Tyson the way Holyfield did. And you can't use 1996 Tyson after spending 3 years locked up and 4 years away from the ring. Come on Rules, you know better!

Holyfield essentially blocked, wrestled, used lateral movement and timed him in ways Foreman simply couldn't replicate. Everything Tyson threw was thwarted, blocked or simply hit air. Tyson occasionally landed some pretty telling blows but not enough to neutralize Holyfield's game plan. He was outworked, and out maneuvered but not outgunned.

Guys like Douglas, Holyfield and Lewis didn't survive Tyson's onslaught, they avoided it and they did this using lateral movement, a competent jab and technical savvy. Foreman doesn't resemble this at all. His jab in his first career was competent but still very mundane. His power was top notch but his durability and stamina were even more questionable than Tyson's as the rounds progressed. He can be dropped by single hard shots early in fights (Lyle) and his stamina can sometimes let him down (Ali) and his focus, like Tyson sometimes wanders (Young).

Tyson only loses to guys who get to him early and beat him over the course of the fight and need the later rounds to finish the job. He doesn't go down early and has had experience in 12 round fights. He's trained for 15 round fights (Biggs) and has maintained a steady punch output in the later rounds showing that he can go the rounds and still be dangerous. In effect, Tyson's shortcomings aren't going to be exploited by Foreman simply because the only way Foreman is going to win is by out-muscling him and out firing him.

Foreman would fight on the back foot occasionally pressing forward similar to the Lyle fight. He'll provide resistance with his aggression but he won't be able to elude Tyson's retaliation and or onslaught nor will he beat him to the punch.

His shortcomings all favor Tyson and If I had to lay down a bet I'd pick Mike to stop him in 6 rounds with 1 knockdown to his credit while being ahead on cards at the time of stoppage.

 

That’s actually a great question.

I believe Golota was later admitted to hospital due to injuries suffered against Mike. If street fights count, Mitch Green had to have stitches for the eye Mike closed with a single right hand - I assume he got those at an ER. Could be others, but I don’t know.

Having said the above, I don’t think Mike’s sending Joe Louis to hospital however.

Louis himself sent Max Schmeling to hospital with some pretty serious injuries after little more than 2 mins of fighting.

 

Douglas was a pretty big puncher and had to beat the absolute brakes off Tyson

Ali, Foreman, and Frazier had their fair share of lackluster competition, was Bruno or Ruddock really that much worse than Folley or Quarry, would almost 40 Holmes not be able to beat Ramos

The biggest factor would be that none of those champs ever faced anyone with close to the speed, power from both hands, and skill Tyson had, it would depend a lot on how well they could adapt to a fighting style unlike anything they had been against, and not get knocked out while trying to figure it out

At least Ali had Patterson, but say he tries ropadoping with Tyson, Tyson would just about double Foreman's punches because of his speed, he would be a lot more precise when he decided to head hunt, and his left hooks weren't bad

I think if Foreman got tagged and ended up in a sloppy slugfest like with Lyle, Tyson could slip a lot of his wide punches and land

Now whether any of those guys would actually get knocked out is another question, I also think it wouldn't be difficult for Foreman to exceed Douglas' beating

 

Tyson's best version beats Holyfield and Lewis.

They got a degraded version

 

Age is irrelevant. Anyone who understands boxing and saw prime Tyson knows that the 96 version of a shadow of himself.

 

If he would have faced fighters as poor as Louis (poor by modern standards I mean) and with the same gloves Louis used, he'd send every single one to the hospital.

 

Anyone who understands boxing knows age is a huge factor of being in their prime.
96 version is still prime considering what he was accomplishing at that time.
Now in comparison to 88 Tyson is a different conversation but 96 version has a good chance.

 

All and none. Depends.

 

While I agree Douglas definitely received a long count and King was more than right (first time for everything) to file an injection over the matter to prevent Douglas from defending against Holyfield and to rematch Tyson instead, I thought Douglas looked alert, and more frustrated than anything. Will have to rewatch the knockdown to see if my opinion changes.