Who's the GOAT at SMW?

p4p mean nothing. Its not an international organisation who makes those lists, its an American one.

You call us British being nationalistic but you Americans keep running back to that list for your source.
Its not even a real list, WHO makes that list?

 

Collins peaked as a fighter in '92 against Johnson and Kalambay - he was too raw against McCallum and too slow against Eubank (first), to be considered at his peak in those fights. Against Johnson and Kalambay he threw sharp combinations, very cute counters etc arguably winning both fights - and the opposition was an incredible standard...Kalambay I rate better than Mayweather.

Collins changed his boxing style to an ugly, out-and-out mauler/marauder from the second Eubank fight onwards to the end of his career, knowing he wasn't as quick and nimble as he used to be and just relied on physical strength, stamina and strength of character to out-work and bully all-comers at full pelt, like a warrior world-beater!

 

Would that warrior have beaten Andre Ward?

 

It's difficult to say - Collins at the end of his career was even more awkward, amateurish-looking etc than Froch is, Ward hasn't fought anyone quite like him...Froch being the closest thing. I suppose Ward would out-point him, because Eubank liked to stop and set himself to anchor his feet to throw shots (Collins didn't give him that time and came at him from awkward angles to take away the Eubank right uppercut (second fight)), and Ward just lets them go.

 

Collins' is much more versatile then Froch.

He's faster, more movement.
More output.

Same defence, getting hit in the face, but Collins had a chin, and had an inside game to combat Ward's if need be.

 

Collins actually had some nice reflex-based little head slips when he was younger, believe it or not.

 

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arzRkG97E7Q[/url]

 

Who've you got in a Calzaghe vs Warrior Collins match?

Back then, Collins would have beat him.
Prime vs Prime.

Calzaghe outworks him.

 

Collins had a really good untelegraphed counter right hand and after working with Floyd Patterson and Freddie King in '93-'94 he learned how to punch properly from the feet with it, a lot more power than the old feather-fisted Collins from the Boston days. I think he could land that right hand all night long against Calzaghe's southpaw stance (nice gap between hands) and come-forward style and grind him down with it. Collins would've beaten Calzaghe, who constantly loaded up his shots back then, like pulling his left hand back telegraphed - the time for Steve to get in those rights and wobble Joe a bit, with Joe firing back instead of covering or moving and so Steve getting in a few more.... he could've knocked Joe out, but more likely ground him down and stopped him late.

 

Eubank didn't want Roy, while Roy was at SMW.

Collins did, but what did he bring the table? The WBO belt.

Roy's choices were:

Stick around and fight Collins, or move up to a new weight class for a new challenge.

There was nothing really to gain by fighting Collins. You're only looking from a Brit perspective. For Brit fans it would have been huge. But for Roy and the rest of the world, it wouldn't have been. Collins was respected in the U.S. but he wasn't classed as a great fighter, and nobody was desperate to see that fight.

Roy had the opportunity to gain the lightly regarded WBO, but then had no chance of obtaining the WBA or WBC belts. So what was the point? It wouldn't have been a big money fight, and the WBO was worthless without the others.

So he dismissed Collins and went to LHW.

He fought Griffin in a WBC belt contest. Fighting at LHW for a major belt was better than hanging around at SMW fighting for the WBO, with no chance of obtaining the other main belts.

How could he have faced Eubank?? Eubank did NOT want to fight Roy. atsch

How could he have faced Benn and Liles?

That's why he went up to LHW, because those fights were incredibly difficult to make.

DM didn't want to fight Roy. You've been shown enough evidence.

Tiozzo left to go to CW, and didn't come back down to LHW for about 5 years.

He didn't fight Nunn, Roch or Maske, but he fought Griffin, Johnson, Hill, Harding, Gonzalez and Tarver.

I know that if he had have fought Nunn, Roch and Maske, and not fought all of the others, you'd be on this forum claiming that he'd ducked them. You can't fight everyone. Where's Harding and Tarver's names on DM's resume?

?

Veit? Lacy was in 2006 after 13 years at the weight.

DM beat Hill on points. Roy crushed him in four rounds. If you were a fan of boxing, then you'd realise that Griffin was a very good fighter.

DM shamefully play acted to get Roch DQ'd in 96. Go and watch it.

It was ****ing embarrassing and pathetic, and you wonder why Roy didn't want to go to Germany?

[url]http://youtu.be/ldlJvvPTjWk[/url]

Go to the 26th minute.


Roy unified the LHW division, and then went up and beat a top 5 HW easily!

He finally got the big ones?

A 40 year old Roy Jones, who hadn't won at top level for 5 years, and who Joe had said a fight against him would be pointless, because he was shot?

A disputed SD against Hopkins who'd been beaten by Taylor twice three years earlier?

Fantastic!

Joe won on points, FOUR years AFTER Glen Johnson had destroyed him.

WOW!

He could have had more fights at LHW, instead of starving himself to make weight against the likes of Peter Manfredo.

Griffin had caused Roy problems, but was on the way to getting legitimately knocked out before Roy went stupid.

Not going near DM? Yeah we all know that DM was going crazy to fight Roy.

It's a very good record, but put the stats to one side, and consider that it took him ten years to unify, and Kessler and Lacy weren't/aren't great fighters.

It depends on what the circumstances are. They might be more ambitious. There's no way Ward will see out the rest of his career at 168.

Again, other guys might not want to stay there that long.

I would suspect that he'd have looked for Ward.

But then what?

If he'd have lost to Ward, he probably would have moved up for a fresh challenge like he has.

If he'd have beaten him, possibly a rematch and a few defences, before again moving up.

It depends on what was on offer in each weight division and how ambitious he was.

Joe turned down the chance to fight in the same weight class as the world's best fighter.

 

Roy Jones was bar none the best Super-middleweight of all time but he didn't stay in the division long enough to be considered the greatest....the greatest of all time I would have to say is Andre Ward based on achievement. The competition he has fought and beaten has already surpassed what Slappy did by fighting bums in Wales the majority of his career.

 

Eubank clearly stated that he wanted Jones when he made his comeback in '96, and kept talking of fighting Jones or Toney throughout '97 but how Jones 'doesn't want to fight me' and Toney 'won't come down to light-heavy'.

 

Andre Ward won a competition based out of his hometown.
Hahha

Also these "bums" Calzaghe fought and beat. you know your heroes never wanted to fight this guy right till the end of their careers?

 

Joe Calzaghe unified the Super middleweight division.
After taking on all comers for over a decade.

He never ducked anybody.
He never had any "home decisions" which were BS

He was the dominant SMW of the 00's

This is what this thread is asking isn't it?
Who's the best SMW in history.

Jones' did nothing in the weight division. He left it.

No hypothetical, "Oh, Jones' Could/should have" don't matter in this topic. He never did ****.

 

Actually a piece of Ireland is a part of the UK. So you're wrong. Start a poll. Collins isn't beating Ward.