Who's the GOAT at SMW?

the only person made to look foolish was the slow-witted, know-nothing "mind reader".

"victim" :rofl Ripping your posts apart is child's play. You two are still stumbling around utterly confused and frustrated...from now on you're gonna be a permanent Team Elite victim :deal.

And bailey is invincible in esb debates. You're both clearly far too weak and simple-minded to even challenge him .

 

You guys are ******ed virgins getba life.

 

Still waiting for the links. :good

 

Bailey,

Getting ragged? I said the time period between 99-2006. You've selected ONE year. Joe HIMSELF said in 2004, that there was nothing left to achieve at the weight, and he knew he needed to move up to get bigger fights and more recognition. So you're now arguing against the guy you're defending. What Joe said in 2004 also PROVES that he wasn't thinking about Lacy and Kessler, because in 2004 they hadn't done ANYTHING! But all you keep saying about him not fighting the likes of Tarver, is "So what? He beat Hopkins who beat Tarver!" But he didn't know that was going to happen did he? He's not psychic. He didn't think to himself in 2004 "There's no need to fight the likes of Tarver, because Hopkins will beat him in a few years, and then I'll beat Hopkins." I don't need anyone to bail me out when I'm debating with you.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. We can look back now, and we can say "Well, he didn't go up, but he unified at 168, and beat Hop in the end, so he had a good career" which he did. But that doesn't excuse the fact, that he said all sorts of stuff in 2004, but then never went through with it. He could have been in the mix against Tarver and Johnson. Your whole Sheika example is irrelevant. If Joe had've moved up earlier, he could have been the one to beat Roy before Tarver. That's a possibility. If he'd have moved up in 2003 after he couldn't get Ottke, then he could have looked to fight Tarver after he'd beaten Roy, or Johnson after he'd beaten Roy and Tarver. Despite Johnson's previous losses at 168, a fight against Johnson who'd beaten Roy, would have been a BIGGER fight than the likes of Mkrtchyan and Salem.

Again, irrelevant. A fight with Tarver around the time he'd beaten Roy, would have been a bigger fight, than any fight he had at 168 at the time.

You're not schooling anybody, but yourself with your irrelevant stats. I wasn't talking about him going up to fight Roy, after he'd been knocked out twice. I said, he could have gone up sooner, to look to fight Roy, I wasn't talking about a specific time. But if Joe had been established at the weight around the time that Roy had lost, he could POTENTIALLY have had big fights against the guys that had beaten Roy. I'm not saying that Tarver and Johnson were BETTER than Lacy or Kessler. What I'm saying is, having a fight against Tarver, in 2004, the FIRST GUY to beat Roy (who was still considered the best fighter in the world at that point) would have been a BIGGER fight than Lacy or Kessler. DO YOU UNDERSTAND? Tarver was big news in 2004. HE'D KNOCKED OUT ROY JONES IN FRONT OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE! If Joe had've fought him afterwards, it would have been a bigger fight than Lacy in 2006. Lacy and Kessler had done nothing on the same scale as what Tarver had done, by knocking out Roy. It was more than possible, that Joe could have gone up and unified at 175. He could have gone up and stayed there, and still fought Hopkins.

Of course they deserve credit, but it depends what their circumstances are, who they've fought and when etc.

Ha! So you're going to tell everyone on here, that because of the live gate of 50,000 +, that Joe's fight against Kessler, was BIGGER than De La Hoya vs Mayweather?

Of course they were no guarantees, I never said they were. I said IF Joe had've gone to 175 much sooner than he did, then he could have possibly have fought Roy before he went up to HW, or he could have been in Tarver's or Johnson's position when he came back. Johnson was in the right place at the right time. He fought Roy just three months after Tarver had crushed him. Joe could have been in that same position. There's lots of possibilities. Woods fought all three in the end, so there's no reason why Joe couldn't have.

He was an example. Roy had all of the belts at 175. So he had mandatories from three different organisations. We also know that Joe would automatically have been made Gonzalez's mandatory if he'd have decided to go up to 175. Because Joe was the WBO champ at 168, and he'd defended the belt many times, the WBO would have granted him the opportunity to move up as their SUPER champion. This was discussed on here last year. The tough fights comment, was from Joe himself. But that was obviously said before Lacy, Kessler and Hopkins etc. Joe didn't call Roy out. He said in 2001, after Mcintyre "I'm looking to fight the likes of Roy Jones." He mentioned is name, and then followed it up with NOTHING. Then a FULL YEAR LATER, Frank spoke to Roy's camp, while Murad was in the middle of negotiations with the Ruiz camp. It was a complete waste of time. Even if the Ruiz fight hadn't have been made, Tarver was next for Roy. He never had a chance of making that fight having discussions in Sept/Oct of 2002. It was literally the WORST TIME they could have had talks.

 

Joe calzaghe bitches

 

Don't start pestering me for any more help like some hopeless lost puppy. You're creepy enough as it is.

I think is some of the stuff you want. A yank writer's article, and his opinions.;

Eager fans have a Jones: Germans want to engage Roy

by George Kimball
Sunday, May 14, 2000

INDIANAPOLIS - Everywhere Roy Jones went around Indianapolis this week, he found himself trailed by Germans. They were at the press conference, the weigh-in, at last night's fight. They followed him to dinner, and when he walked out of his hotel, there would be a German sports anchor on the sidewalk, doing a standup as the cameras whirred.

They were from something called ``Premiere World'' (German company; two words: one French, one English), which fancies itself as Germany's version of Home Box Office, and they were here with one specific purpose: to call out Roy Jones.

``We are here because of Dariusz Michalczewski - you know, The Tiger,'' a young Teutonic producer explained.

Jones, who was here to solidify his position as the world's best practicing boxer against WBA No. 1 Richard Hall last night. But as usually happens, the bout was widely perceived as a mismatch. Jones moved up from 160 to 168, and then from 168 to 175 pounds, because he had exhausted his competition at those levels, and once again he has apparently run out of worlds to conquer.

Jones simultaneously holds the titles of boxing's three major sanctioning bodies, the WBA, the WBC and the IBF. Michalczewski holds the belt of the World Boxing Organization, but he also stakes a claim to the ``linear'' title, having bested Virgil Hill to acquire the WBA belt several years ago.

That Michalczewski, depending on whom you talk to either a Polish-born German or a Pole who happens to reside in Germany, relinquished it is considered a matter of small consequence. In boxing parlance, he beat the man who beat the man who beat the man.

Jones was recently named the ``Fighter of the Decade'' for the 1990s, during which he won titles at three different weights. He has danced with the Rockettes, played minor league basketball and recorded a rap CD. Guys like Emmitt Smith and Michael Jordan follow him around like lap dogs. He is a millionaire, yet at 31, he remains unfulfilled.

Whether the undefeated Michalczewski is indeed the second-best light heavyweight on the planet is immaterial. What is important is that, at least in part of the world, he is perceived that way.

If Roy Jones needs a big-time fight against a big-time foe, Dariusz Michalczewski fits, but economics - and the fact that both champions are so enormously popular on their respective continents - makes it less, rather than more, likely the fight will happen soon.

``Let him come over here,'' Jones said when Michalczewski's name came up the other day.

Wary of fighting a European on European soil, Jones said it would take ``at least'' $10 million to even start talking about fighting Michalczewski in Europe, where the two could presumably pack a soccer stadium with upward of 60,000 fans for a fight that would be showcased on pay-per-view on both continents.

``Here's the problem,'' HBO vice president Kery Davis explained. ``Between the site fee and the television revenue, Michalczewski can make $4 million just by stepping into the ring over there - and that's against anybody. Roy can do the same thing here. But when you factor in the time differences, somebody would have to sacrifice to fight in the other guy's backyard. If the fight were over there, they'd either have to put it on at 3 in the morning or compensate us for having to show it on tape-delay. Same thing if they come over here. From a broadcasting standpoint, it wouldn't be good economics. These guys think they can make $10 million apiece for fighting each other, but where's the money going to come from?''

And from that book;

"I made three offers for a fight between Jones and Daruisz in Germany. Jones and his management turned down all three", Klaus-Peter Kohl said. If they want the fight to be held in the US it's now up to them to send me an offer. I'm the German promoter, of course I can not make offers for fights in the United States."

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0hJUfgrrYRAC&printsec=frontcover#v=snippet&q=klaus-peter&f=false

Lonely virgin fanboy freak Loudon's whole fantasy world of nuthuggery just came crashing down like a deck of cards. PWNED. Forever. Don't bother replying with endless boring waffling nonsensical fanboy rationalizations and pitiful excuses either. I've given you enough generous schoolings for one thread.

 

Bailey,

Part 2.

I'm not arguing with you.

The point is, they passed through, and didn't stay long at the weight.

Toney is still fighting. He left 168, NINETEEN years ago.

Roy is still fighting. He left 168, SEVENTEEN years ago.

Nunn fought for around five years after leaving.

That's the reason he past through DUMMY! He didn't stay because he couldn't get Benn and Liles. Calzaghe was a nobody in 96, so was Ottke, and we know all about the difficulties in making the fight with DM.

We know why.

I was being sarcastic, and I was talking about Hopkins.

I agree, but I would say more experienced. People will class accomplishments on what you've achieved, and how you've achieved it. Tarver shocked the world by beating Roy, and got all of the belts apart from the IBF.

Yes, but at the time, Roy had just beaten Ruiz, and nobody knew about his weight troubles. That was a huge win at the time for Tarver. He'd beaten the best fighter in the world and taken his titles.

But that's not very impressive. You can't be asking me about Toney and Jirov's credentials, and then say Lacy had 5 world title fights, and had beaten ten ranked guys.

Do you think he'd have gone up, if he he'd have had the build?

Well, I've heard Enzo say that if Joe wasn't 100% fit to fight, he wouldn't ever allow him to fight anyone, no matter who it was, and even if it was only a day before the fight. Enzo swears that Joe had to be at 100% to fight.

But then you've got Frank saying, Joe tried to pull out of the Lacy fight at two weeks notice CLAIMING a hand injury, and both he and Enzo had to talk him around and get him to fight. Frank also said that his hand looked fine against Lacy, and he used to try and pull out last minute quite often. Frank thinks that it was a psychological problem, and he didn't believe in himself enough. So they must have been something in it. There's no way Enzo would have persuaded Joe to fight if he was genuinely injured.

Here you are again, answering a question with a question, and then shouting at me for not staying on subject.

You've asked me this question TWICE already last year, when Jirov was mentioned. What's the point in me giving you my opinion, on what I think were Jirov's best wins, for you to then look on boxrec, to try and come back at me with something? Jirov was a tough fight, and in the past you've mentioned that Roy could have fought him.

I said he was already an established world class fighter, and in reply to that, you have answered with the above question. Toney didn't do lot at 175, but he was regarded as a world class operator.

Yeah, but 168 was looking weak before Lacy and Kessler, hence why Joe said there was nothing left to achieve and he wanted to go up.

Once again, if Joe had've gone up in 2004, fights with Glen Johnson (despite the fact that he'd lost to Sheika who Joe had beaten) and Tarver, were BIGGER fights than Mkrtchyan, Salem and Veit.

 

HALLELUJAH, praise the lord!

Finally, after 4 times of asking.

Thanks!


Right, lets break this down objectively, without the insults, because I had enough of that yesterday.


Roy DID not want to go to Germany. Everybody, including you know this.

When I kept asking you for the link, it wasn't because I didn't believe that they'd sent offers to Roy, it was because I wanted to see if they had any reference to fighting in America. I knew they wouldn't have been one.

So, Kohl kept offering Roy the fight in Germany.

But WHY? When Roy made it abundantly clear that he didn't want to go, unless it was for ridiculous money.

You've seen three statements from Roy, one of which was "I don't think a knockout would be enough over there!"

So they were simply wasting their time making Roy offers to go to Germany.


So this is how it basically played out:



1. Kohl kept offering Roy the fight, which was turned down, because he didn't want to fight in Germany.

2. Kohl said "If they want the fight to be held in the U.S. it's up to them to send me an offer."

3. Davis of HBO tried to contact Kohl, but because Roy had previously turned him down, REFUSED to take Davis's calls.

4. After trying over and over to phone, and arrange a meeting, Davis was forced into faxing the offer of a double header.

5. Kohl took offence to the offer of the proposed double header, even though he'd said DM was willing to fight in the U.S.


That's the timeline of events.


But I just don't understand why Kohl would have kept making offers for them to fight in Germany, when he knew that Roy HAD NO INTENTIONS OF GOING.

It was a complete waste of time!

Roy was never going to back down, because he was the best fighter in the world, rightly or wrongly he'd got ALL of the main belts, and he was still scarred from the Olympics.

The onus was always on Kohl and DM to either fight in America, or to try and stage it somewhere neutral.


Your whole argument has been "Roy ducked the fight, because he kept turning down offers!"

But that was just on Kohl and DM's terms.


That doesn't constitute as ducking out of the fight. That was just Roy not taking a backward step, and refusing to go to Germany.


But we know that Roy paid Brad Jacobs to meet with Kohl, but Kohl would never answer their calls, because he was pissed at Roy for refusing their initial offers.


It was school yard antics.


Regarding the $4M per fight for DM, obviously one of Murad or Davis had got that wrong, so that's fair enough. But this article makes reference to them making huge money against each other, possibly $10M each. So it still doesn't alter the fact, that DM said he was willing to go to America, and then didn't end up going, and he instead fought the likes of Hall and Harmon. So even if the $4M was right, he fought them for much less, than what he'd have got for fighting Roy for ALL of the 175 titles. So if he genuinely wanted Roy, that didn't make sense at all.


Finally, we still don't know what the offers actually were to Roy.


All this has told us, is that Kohl made three offers, and Roy would want somewhere in the region of $10M to even consider going to Germany.


I'd love to know what the three offers were exactly.


Come back to me, without the insults, and we'll see what the other posters think of it as well.

 

Michaelczweski sucks, couldn't even beat Jones' leftovers Gonzales atsch

 

Didn't bother reading. Probably never will. You're a sad loser who's been completely pwned.

 

Seriously Joe, answer me this question.


WHY HAVE YOU POSTED THE LINK, IF YOU DON'T EVEN WANT TO DEBATE???



I've been pawned?

Do you not agree with the timeline?

After all this, we still don't know what Kohl's offers were!



If you not even willing to answer questions from YOUR OWN post, or even do me the decency of reading mine, then you're a complete JOKE!


Comeback and we'll have a proper debate.


But if you're not willing to do that, then don't ever reply to one of my posts again!

 

Joe.Boxer exposes himself as a degenerate council estate gutter boy who knows nothing about box and thinks hurling insults is winning a debate.
He's off toasting yesterdays bread for lunch cos he cant afford a fresh batch.

 

my man Loudon smells blood.

 

I actually thought when I saw this board that most of the discussion would be on a decent, adult, or civil level. Loudon comes in with legitimate points and seems to be at least attempting to have a legitimate debate, and 'Joe.Boxer' goes: 'WAFFLE WAFFLE WAFFLE' (as though that actually means something) and can't actually type something of merit.

That said, Roy Jones Jr. would have put a world class beating on Calzaghe had they ever fought in his prime. It wouldn't even have been close at all.

 

No offense, but you couldn't be a worse poster if you tried. Your opinion mean absolutely nothing - to anyone. turdotime isn't much better. Clueless little *** with a hard-on for DLH.