Who's the GOAT at SMW?

Based on accomplishments, Joe is the greatest SMW of all time.

I have no issue with that at all.

But people are praising a great fighter who's accomplished the most at the weight, mainly due to a lack of ambition to move up.

The only reason why Joe unified the titles, and has the best stats, is because he stayed there for 14 of the 15 years he was a pro.

From 99-2005 it wasn't a strong division.

It took him ten years to unify! He waited ten years, while other fighters used the division as just a stepping stone, and others bypassed it altogether to go straight to 175.

When he couldn't unify with Ottke, he had the opportunity to fight in the U.S. and the opportunity of moving up to 175.

But instead, he chose to remain at 168. To my knowledge, he didn't possess psychic powers. He didn't know that Lacy and Kessler would come on the scene, and he didn't know when Ottke was going to retire.

Now in my opinion, he was far too good to stay at 168.

But he stayed there through a lack of ambition.

But guys such as assassin, are criticising Roy, while praising Joe at the same time. It's laughable!

In 1996, Roy was faced with a dilemma. He was the IBF champ, but fights with Benn and Liles were very hard to make with both of them being Don King fighters.

So he had a choice.

Either stay at 168 and wait to see what happened in the future, or drop his belt and move up to a new weight for a fresh challenge.

Roy chose the second option, yet gets criticised.

Joe on the other hand, had a similar dilemma.

He couldn't unify at 168 with Ottke.

So he had the same two options.

Either stay at 168 to see what developed, or drop the belt and move up to 175 for a new challenge against better fighters.

Now Joe picked the first option, yet he's getting praised.

He waited and waited, struggled to make weight, then waited some more, until in 2007 he beat Kessler.

So Roy moved up to 175 and crushed Hill and Griffin, aswell as fighting Reggie Johnson and Tarver etc, while Joe waited ten years.

Yet it's Roy who's getting criticised?

NEWSFLASH!

If Roy hadn't decided to show the ambition that he did, and he'd have stayed at 168, Joe and Ottke's careers would more than likely have turned out very different. Neither of those would have a beaten a prime version of Roy. If they'd have fought Roy, neither would have retired undefeated, and Joe wouldn't have kept his WBO belt for as long as he did.

Joe was a great fighter, and that can't be denied. But under different circumstances, he wouldn't be hailed as the greatest 168 fighter of all time.

He was lucky that Roy didn't swim in his pond in the late 90's-early 00's.

Anyone who praises Joe for being the greatest 168 fighter, while at the same time criticises Roy, needs to wake the **** up!

Joe will probably always have the best 168 stats in history.

But I suspect that other great fighters aren't as likely to stay as long in the division as what Joe did.

Stats can look great on paper.

But they don't allow for circumstances.

 

I when you look at fighters based on Body of Work nobody really compares to Joe Calzaghe. Regardless of who you think he did or didn't fight you can't really argue the fact that he proved more as a Super Middleweight.

Roy Jones Jr. is also someone who you could make a solid case for as one of the Greatest Super Middleweights, but I think the biggest knock on Roy Jones is that he wasn't a career 168lbs fighter, he sort of stopped through on his way to Light Heavyweight which is traditionally what most fighters in the past have done.

Andre Ward and Carl Froch are also making solid cases for All-Time Great Super Middleweight status'. I think Both men are building huge legacy's as we speak and in my own personnel opinion when its said and done they might have the 20 title defenses that Calzaghe had, but the resume will be a little more solid.

 

1. Andre Ward
2. Joe Calzaghe
3. Gennady Golovkin
4. Sergio Martinez
5. Chavez JR

 

Golovkin, Martinez and Chavez Jr have never fought at Super Middleweight.

 

SOB Ward is a real goat, he beat Kessler with a headbutt from across the ring, and intentional illegal headbutt and should have been disqualfied. Calzaghe would have beaten SOB. I think SOB should fight Kovalev, Golovkin in the future, etc. SOB does not believe in a level playing ground. Always his home town, his personal referee, judges, etc. SOB was the only one who did not have to travel..............

 

Ward is the greatest supermiddleweight by resume already. But a prime Roy beats everyone at this weight in history.

 

I think most of us know you do. I also put it as the underline reason for your thread. Bit obvious really

 

Why was Joe fighting bums like Mger Mkrtchyan instead of fighting Markus Beyer for the WBC belt.
You dont become GOAT by staying at home defending a useless WBO all your life.

 

Loudons pwnage pt1

 

Loudons pwnage pt2

 

What an ignorant post. How did you come to that conclussion?
Forget Calzaghe, Eubank and Ottke whos resumes are far greater and tell me how Ward has a better SMW resume than Collins who beat undefeated Eubank, then beat Eubank again, and beat Benn twice.
Do explain

 

Calzaghe did better than that and beat the fighter that KOd Beyer :hi:

 

My top 5 would probably go something like..

Calzaghe
Jones Jr
Eubank
Benn
Ward

Now keep in mind, I rate off of head to head ability more than some people do.

Edit.. You could replace Ward with Collins and I wouldn't fuss.

 

Its not a terrible top 5 but I struggle to put Jones it, as he only had 2 real wins of note at SMW and I dont overly rate the Toney win. I do however rate Jones win over Malinga though it is slightly clouded with how Eubank and Benn beat him first.
I cant see how you could Eubank below Jones when you look at his quality wins.
Out of Eubanks 18 WBO SMW title fights 14 of those fights were against fighters who were, had been or became top 10 SMWs. One was a unification and another was against the undefeated former IBF SMW champ (relinquished his title). In fact 6 of the fighters he faced had been or became world champs.
That cant be ignored, I dont think, which Is why I have Eubank at #2.
No Ottke? 22 SMW world title fights and beat top 10 fighters one after the other as well as being a unified champ and world champ in his 13th fight.
Ward I think could already be top 10. Would have to look at it closely to see if I completely think that, but top 5. No way, not yet

 

You certainly have some points..

It depends on the way you look at it I guess, I mostly put Jones that high because he was such a head to head beast at the weight. I probably rate the Toney win more than you do as well. Jones often did better against the common opponent too a that weight than the other SMW fighters. Jones being my favorite fighter may have me seeing in a different light.

I am not too hell bent on putting Ward in a top 5 yet to tell you the truth.

Ottke obviously has a very good SMW resume as well.. a case can be made.