Whos the greater fighter SRL or FMM

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Joeywill, Jan 5, 2023.

Who's greater

Poll closed Jan 12, 2023.
  1. Ray Leonard

    86.4%
  2. Floyd Mayweather Jr

    13.6%
  1. Blofeld

    Blofeld Member Full Member

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    I may have misunderstood you but IMO Corrales, Cotto, Maidana , Hatton, Judah are definitely not close to being ATGs but they are very good fighters and wins and I appreciate your point regarding Mayweather granting Castillo (and Maidana) a rematch after close fights.
     
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  2. White Bomber

    White Bomber Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The same can be said about anyone's top 50. What makes someone else's opinion worth more or less than mine ?!?
     
  3. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Active Member Full Member

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    A knowledge base of boxing history far in excess of yours, gained through countless hours of painstaking regular research conducted over several years, allied with an independent & unbiased perspective.

    The top 100 link I posted was led by a boxing historian & contributed to by multiple other posters with considerable knowledge of boxing history.

    I have a different ordering to that list & there is of course, nothing wrong with you or anyone having your own list, based on your own criteria & understanding of the careers of candidate fighters throughout history. You're as entitled to post your list(s) as anyone, imo. I appreciate that I asked you to post your top 50, so absolutely cannot criticise you for doing so.

    I'm not going to lie just to placate you, though, there are many posters on here whose rankings & knowledge I'm interested in & learn from. Someone who ranks Vitali, Froch, Julian Jackson, McClellnan, etc., in or around their top 50 p4p all time, is unlikely to hold any views on historical boxing rankings that I will respect.
     
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  4. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Corrales was pfp top 5 at 130 annd a 2 div champ with a really good win column. Cotto is a four division champ. Not sure what the cutoff for ATG is or how important that is.
     
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  5. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    The same sentiment could be expressed for someone who thinks Canelo isn’t top 100 all time.
     
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  6. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    When Ray and Marvin were prime, they weren’t even in the same division.

    What you should be asking, is why didn’t Floyd fight a prime Manny?
     
  7. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Active Member Full Member

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    I wouldn't claim Canelo isn't top 100 because - 1) I have a draft top 50, not got as far as 100 yet; and 2) I typically don't rank fighters until their careers are over or are sufficiently close to their end that they've already achieved what is pertinent to how they'll be ranked.

    My guess is a credible case could be made for Canelo being top 100 once his career is over. Lower 30's or high 20's, that also demonstrates a lack of knowledge of boxing history, though.
     
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  8. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    It doesn’t if it’s an approximation based on modern era fighters like Whitaker and Chavez being placed in a certain range without thoroughly better resumes than Canelo.
     
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  9. BoB Box

    BoB Box Catch Me on Youtube Full Member

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    I said fighters that make the conversation but if you want me to clarify ATG in their prime that FMM beat then ODLH, Corrales, Cotto and according to popular opinion but not mine Canelo(As an ATG) Imo.
    SRL resume consist of great fighters that arent considered an ATG aswell like Benitez for example. Other than Hagler ( which is a highly questionable win) Hearns and Duran whos an ATG that SRL beat in their prime?
     
  10. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Active Member Full Member

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    Posters whose knowledge & unbiased perspective I respect, would rank PW & JCC as clearly greater than Canelo.
     
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  11. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Active Member Full Member

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    @Blofeld, for this poster to classify Corrales & Cotto as ATG's, but not Benetiz, he's either trolling, deficient in his knowledge &/or biased. Either way, I recommend you don't take this viewpoint seriously.
     
  12. BoB Box

    BoB Box Catch Me on Youtube Full Member

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    What are you Blofelds keeper? He cant think for himself?
    So your opinion counts but not mine? If my post arent to your liking then im deficient?
    Your full of yourself and im fine with you staying off my post.
     
  13. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I have no issue with the facts.

    Only that they alone don’t tell you the whole story.

    I was simply telling you to look at the whole picture.

    We can start again for sure.


    Floyd deserves huge credit for rematching Castillo.

    No, Ray didn’t want to rematch Marvin again. But the circumstances were different. That was Ray’s Everest after a 3 year lay off, against a guy who wasn’t in his weight class. Ray was winding down in his career then. Whereas Floyd was still only young with his whole career ahead of him.


    Regarding your list, there were some great wins there.

    The win over Corrales was great.

    The win over Cotto was very good.

    The win over Maidana was very good, as Floyd was in his late 30’s at that point, and I didn’t expect him to take the rematch. Maidana was very tough.

    The performance over Hatton was great, but for me, the win was very good, not great.

    The Judah win was very good. Zab was very tricky. It was a very tough stylistic match up for Floyd.

    The Oscar win was great, as Oscar was a great fighter, with a great jab, who completely outsized Floyd in every area. He held advantages in height, reach and weight.


    Regarding their primes, Cotto definitely wasn’t in his prime.

    Neither was Oscar, who retired the following year.


    I respect all of the above wins, and IMHO, the win over Oscar was his best.

    All of the above were very good-great fighters.

    However, they weren’t on the level of the Fab Four.


    Regarding Manny, one of the biggest myths in boxing is that he refused the testing. No, he didn’t. He simply wanted a cut off period due to what had happened when he’d fought Erik Morales in 2005. And what happened, was that Manny gave blood samples in the middle of his camp. But the lab somehow misplaced them, so they went back and needed him to retake them just before the fight. I think it was the day before. So Manny gave them another sample but said that it’d weakened him in the fight. Now that might have been more of a psychological issue, but Manny as always said that he didn’t feel as strong or as powerful. So he wanted a cut off period against Floyd.

    Now a cut off period should have been fine. Simply because, fighters who take PEDS, cycle them when they’re not in camp throughout the year. The fighters then actually STOP taking them in camp, as that’s how you get the most benefit from them. Which means that even IF Manny had been guilty of taking PEDS, he wouldn’t have taken them in his training camp. So there was just no logical reason for Floyd not to have granted it. But Manny wanted 28 days, and Floyd wanted less. And this dragged on. But in the end, Manny relented and agreed to what Floyd had deemed appropriate. Which from memory, was around 14 days. But instead of Floyd trying to make the fight after Manny had agreed to his number of days, Floyd then said that they were no longer available.

    The saga then dragged on further, before in 2013, Manny actually publicly said that in order to make the fight, he’d agree to every testing demand, including up to the day of the fight. Yet even despite that declaration, the fight still didn’t happen until 2015.

    Now the ironic thing, is that after years of racially abusing and slandering Manny of being dirty without a shred of evidence, it was Floyd who took an illegal IV in his home before their fight, which was banned by both WADA and VADA, as it’s a known masking agent to flush out a cycle of PEDS. Now not only did Floyd have it administered in his home, he didn’t report it to the Nevada State Athletic Commission. And neither did USADA, who Floyd had employed to do the testing. Neither party notified the NSAC, until THREE WEEKS AFTER the fight. And Floyd’s reasoning for taking it, was the BS excuse that he was severely dehydrated. But he wasn’t. Because he never was throughout his whole career, and he was only around 3 pounds out at the 30 day weigh-in check. And even if it had’ve been legit, he’d have taken on fluids orally instead. And even if the IV had been legit, he’d have have reported it, and had it administered in an official medical facility.

    So Floyd was the guilty one, where there’s simply no other way to look at it. And if Floyd had really wanted a clean sport, he wouldn’t have employed USADA for 3 months. He’d have hired WADA or VADA, the 2 leading drug organisations, where he’d have submitted to random, all YEAR around testing instead. Now all of this was swept under the carpet, where the NSAC just issued a statement stating that Floyd had angered them with his actions, yet he’d done nothing wrong, despite the fact that he’d violated their own rules. But I guess their hands were tied. Because Vegas is still one of the biggest venues in the sport, and fall out from such a scandal would have had dire consequences for both the state and the sport. But those are the facts, and you can make up your own mind.


    If you’re interested, and you have the time, read the following article:

    This content is protected


    It’s not an anti-Floyd article.

    It’s a very fascinating look at what happens behind the scenes regarding the use of PEDS in the sport.


    Regarding Floyd’s earlier career as PBF, yes, he took risks and fought pretty much everyone that he could. The only black mark during that period of his career, was where he called out Winky Wright, where after agreeing to to the contract, he reneged on the purse split at the last moment.
     
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  14. BoB Box

    BoB Box Catch Me on Youtube Full Member

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    I agree Corrales and Cotto are not on the same level as the fab 4 but I still consider them to be ATG. Imo
    You gave me different perpective on why the money - pac fight didn't happen in their prime, thanks.
    If they did fight in their prime who do you think would have won. I think Manny was to one dimensional for floyd.
     
  15. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Because most people use traditional ranking criteria, where guys are ranked upon their elite level skills, as well as on their wins over fellow great fighters etc.

    Sure, your opinion is your opinion. You can rank who you want. But nobody knowledgeable who uses traditional ranking criteria, is going to put a guy like Carl Froch on their list.

    Was Carl a great fighter, who possessed great ability? No.

    Did Carl ever beat any great fighters? No.

    Carl was a very good fighter who was exciting. But there have been hundreds of boxers with Carl’s level of ability, wins and achievements.

    Carl was never an elite level guy like Floyd Mayweather.

    He never left a historic footprint on the sport’s history.

    The list is for the greatest fighters of all time, and Carl was never a great fighter.

    Pretty simple really.
     
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