Who's the more skilled fighter Anthony Joshua , or Luis Ortiz

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Dance84, Sep 6, 2020.

More skilled fighter ?

  1. Joshua

    58.7%
  2. Ortiz

    41.3%
  1. Toney F*** U

    Toney F*** U Boxing junkie Full Member

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    Exactly!!! It’s just wilder fanboys trying to hype up his resume. How can you have the title as “The Heavyweight Boogeymen” if your old as hell and haven’t fought anybody
     
  2. UnleashtheFURY

    UnleashtheFURY Todd Morgan Beamer (11/24/68 – 9/11/01) Lets roll! Full Member

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    Although tbf the Ortiz who fought Jennings was frozen out for a bit and 100% would have mopped the floor with Wilder, although that's not saying a whole lot. Wilder only fought Ortiz because his handlers were satisfied that he had aged and slowed down enough. Still couldn't get the W over him without controversy or looking terrible.
     
  3. The Professor

    The Professor Moderator Staff Member

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    Exactly. The only halfway decent fighters on Wilder's resume are Ortiz and Bermane Stiverne, and both were old and overrated. That tells you all you need to know about what a fraud Wilder is, and always was.
     
  4. RB1702

    RB1702 Active Member Full Member

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    Wilder looks absolutely appalling against all those D level heavyweights he fights before he lands the right hand so to say he’s a good judge of distance without showcasing it against a decent opponent is naive. He managed to keep his range against Ortiz but was being swarmed and was forced to retreat on the back foot whenever he got close.

    When a world champions only game plan is to lose every round until his opponents tires that’s when you know he’s just not very good. If Wilder gets in the ring with AJ and tried that s**t with him he’d get smashed and stopped inside 3 because unlike Ortiz AJ can close the distance and land fluent combinations, Wilders distance management ain’t gonna help him there pal. Wilder has a punchers chance only against Joshua. That same punch that took him till the championship rounds to get guys like Arreola, Spzilka, Molina out of there(in his prime).
     
  5. UnleashtheFURY

    UnleashtheFURY Todd Morgan Beamer (11/24/68 – 9/11/01) Lets roll! Full Member

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    The fact that someone like Szpilka who took the fight on short notice, has an abysmal glass chin was actually outboxing(despite what the garbage commentary was saying) also shows what a fraud Wilder was. That fraudulent title reign is a black mark on the history of boxing, boxing historians will reflect upon it with disgust in the future.
     
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  6. bbjc

    bbjc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You say that but at the same time breazeale took joshua later considering wilder iced him in a round. Molina also had practically no training camp for joshua or no where near long enough. Pretty much a late replacement.

    People underestimating wilder. You dont get to the top of the game without having more than just a great right hand. Is it ever occured to people that what their doing with him is just playing to his strengths. Their tactics are all about using that right hand effectively...it doesnt mean its all hes got tho. Wilders gameplan is actually very good. He uses his jab and length to get guys chasing him. From there eventually a right hands coming.

    The dilema you face is....you,ve to close the distance he creates with his movement and wide stance first. You,ve to go in punching. Not knowing if the right hands coming. Dangerous position to be in.

    Fury had the answer...cause fury can move every which way...could go in at angles....had the height and length to go with it...and can fight on the move.

    Joshuas problem is he can only really fight forward and backwards effectively. He has to plant to be effective. Joshua will end up doing the chasing in that fight. He wont have to chase as much as most wilder opponents because there a similsr size etc. But he,ll still be the chaser. Because....

    Wilders better at getting in and out with the jab. Joshuas jabs okay as well...but hes not great at getting in and out with it. His jab has no real purpose. It doesnt control the opponent or frustrate them. He more uses it to step in with something. The problem is wilder will keep moving in that fight. He wont run about the ring. But if joshua tries to start an attack. He,ll move away. If joshua beats him to the jab....wilder moves before joshua can follow up. Its a split second thing but joshua needs to plant his feet to get his follow up punches when moving in. The big difference is fury doesnt need to plant he can genuinely fight on the move. He can also change the angle going in.

    Its a close fight. But my money would be on wilder getting a right hand off on joshua. Joshuas biggest problem is his top and bottom half dont work as well as wilder and furys. They both use their arms and legs together better. If you watch joshua closely...hes not as good at it.

    It might seem like rubbish but at that level...people will be aware of that being a problem for joshua.

    He can win that fight but going in i,d fancy wilder to win it.
     
  7. RB1702

    RB1702 Active Member Full Member

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    I appreciate you taking the time to do a lengthy break down although I disagree with some of the stuff you said I do respect the effort you put in. Joshua’s jab is what stopped Ruiz from just going at him, to say his jab has no purpose is wrong in my opinion.

    Could I see a scenario where Wilder lands a right hand on AJ? Sure yes it’s definitely possible but people need to remember it’s not gonna be any right hand hand it has to be a nuclear right hand and one AJ doesn’t see coming to keep him down. The one he caught Ortiz with wouldn’t have knocked AJ out. Also AJ isn’t gonna be keeping his distance from Wilder in that fight he’s gonna be looking to keep him at close to mid range so he can’t pop off that right hand from range. Realistically I see AJ hurting Wilder first and stopping him.

    Wilder often as a low guard which is leaky, he doesn’t cover up or protect himself well at all and often leaves his chin exposed looking for a clean shot. I honestly see AJ hurting him, not letting him off the hook and then finishing him inside 5.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
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  8. Toney F*** U

    Toney F*** U Boxing junkie Full Member

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    Wilder got to that level because he’s lanky and hits hard, that’s it. Also because he won the lottery by getting a title shot when stiverne was champ, plus the wbc let him cherry pick bums. Also his fans badly overrate his technical skills, it’s not hard to set up a big right hand if your so much taller than the d level opponents your fighting.
     
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  9. RB1702

    RB1702 Active Member Full Member

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    Most of his title defences were against opposition outside the top 30. If anyone knows something about the heavyweight division it’s that a lot of guys at that level are very poor heavyweights who tend to just pick up boxing as a hobby and then turn pro to make some half decent money. Gerald Washington was a failed football player who turned to boxing for instance. It’s not difficult to land a big right against them.

    I would have gave Wilder all the credit in the world if he was able to do this stuff to guys like Povetkin or Klitschko or even a Fury who wasn’t at 50%.
     
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  10. CST80

    CST80 The Mercurial Mephistophelean Malcontent Staff Member

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    Luis Ortiz has the better pure skill set. AJ is rudimentary, but his deterrent is so great, it keeps his opponents from over committing, therefore making it seem like he's more skilled than he actually is. When he has opponents with good chins that don't fear his power. Well... you saw what happened, he got KO'd.
     
  11. RB1702

    RB1702 Active Member Full Member

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    Not every opponent with a good chin is gonna walk him down and beat him. Ruiz couldn’t the second time and Parker was feared to engage. People credit Usyk with having a granite chin, let’s see if he tries to walk down AJ. Even people’s with good chins will be weary of being hit by a guy as powerful as Joshua. Him losing to Ruiz was simply poor game plan and judgement not because Ruiz didn’t fear his power. Ruiz had a lot of respect for Joshua’s power you could see that at the end of round 1 in the rematch. He took a few steps back.
     
  12. CST80

    CST80 The Mercurial Mephistophelean Malcontent Staff Member

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    Who are you? AJ's agent?
     
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  13. Richmondpete

    Richmondpete Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He was better than Whyte imo
     
  14. bbjc

    bbjc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    What i was saying a few posts back. About joshua having to plant and how his legs and arms dont work as good as fury or wilders. Thats how he got caught against ruiz. Klitchko and whyte. Think all three we,re in the exchange.

    Joshua planted his feet to finish ruiz off in close. It basically was poor judgement. But its a pattern. Hes too stationary when throwing them hurtful shots. Agree with everything else tho....everyone including fury has to be wary with his power.
     
  15. Badbot

    Badbot Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    :lol: Aydamn 2.0