Who's your GOAT?

Keep in mind, SRR's first 41 fights were not filmed. Scary to think the videos we see may not have been of the very best of Robinson.

 

Your examples are obvious and they need to be split into 2 sections:

P4P
H2H

The HW's aren't all better fighters.

They would however win H2H based on their size and power.

They're actual skills wouldn't play much of a factor in the fight.

You can't say that Frank Bruno was a better fighter than Leonard, on the grounds that Leonard wouldn't have beaten him in a H2H fight.

Leonard was obviously the better fighter.

He was more skilled, he had a better resume, and therfore will be more respected and higher ranked.

 

How is that revelant?

 

I get when you're coming from, but any knowledgeable fan is going to rate on a P4P basis.

Everybody knows that Loma couldn't beat Gassiev in a H2H fight, but I would think that more than 95% of people would say that Loma was the better fighter.

I think it's silly to claim that it's absurd for people to choose guys below HW. Almost everyone will always do that.

 

Why’s that?
Every fighter should strive to be like bhop.
Probably one of the most intelligent fighters of all time.
Started off his career slugging and going toe to toe, realized if he was gonna make money he was gonna have to have some longevity in the sport. Really fine tuned his defense and hit and not get hit style. Boxed until 50 years old.
Nobody does that.
He, like pac are one a lifetime fighters.

 

before crawford is done I expect we add his name to the list.

 

But then on the other hand, the concept of P4P was created to benefit and reward with recognition all the smaller non heavyweight guys that before P4P was thought up, could never be the best fighters because they in reality could never beat the larger Heavyweights. This is why it’s is almost impossible for Heavyweights to be seen as the best P4P fighters because it was never created for them.

 

I hate the term GOAT. It's so overused in sports and more recently music. GTFOH with that ****.

 

Bernard had a great career.

He was a great fighter. But we're talking here about the GOAT.

He has neither the resume or the talent on a H2H basis to be proclaimed the GOAT.

 

I understand what you're saying.

I understand what Tinman is saying.

The only thing I don't agree with, is that he thinks it's absurd for anyone to pick non HW's, when most people are obviously going to do that.

If you spoke with a fellow fan in a bar and he told you that in his opinion, Robinson was the GOAT, you wouldn't shut him down and tell him that he had to choose a HW instead, on the grounds that a WW could never beat a HW in a H2H fight. In my opinion, that would be silly.

Bruno wasn't a better fighter than Leonard.

It's always a fascinating debate though.

From what I've learnt from over the years, I think Robinson was technically better than a guy like Greb. There's plenty of accounts of Greb's style, even without footage. So based on talent, I think Robinson rates higher. But then when you think that Greb was 5'8 with a small reach, and he didn't have great vision yet he beat guys like Tunney, then that to me is something else.

I think you could also class Ali as the greatest ever fighter, on the grounds that he has a great resume, and he had a unique skill set that he carried around with a 6'3 frame, at over 200 pounds.

Again, I can see where you guys are coming from. But to me, it's madness to claim that Braezeale is better than what Duran was.

 

Hearns lays Floyd out cold just like Duran.

 

See I disagree. Better means who is the best H2H. Bruno destroys Leonard, thus hes better.

I would rate Leonard higher p4p.

 

And the fact that Gassiev is a sure bet to beat Loma is precisely why he is a better fighter H2H. In an absolute sense hes just flat out a better fighter.

Pound for pound Loma is better.

These are two separate discussions. One that seem far too often merged.

It's just simply not true that a guy like Loma is better than Gassiev. Sure hes more skilled. That's obvious, but he loses the fight.