Whose the best heavyweight RJJ could have beaten?

You know why i love saying stuff like Fitz KTFO Jones? Because it evokes responses like this, unfounded statements about evolution and gaps in talent and blah blah blah all without any empirical data whatsoever. 99% of the time, you get the "fighting has evolved" junt as if it's some sort of factual statement- evolution implies superior progression. I don't see that. I see change.

Anyway, I favor Fitzsimmons over Jones for a couple reasons. Both Jones and Fitz like to sit at distance with their hands down and feint for openings. Jones has faster footwork, and hands. The difference IMO is in the quality of their punches. Fitzsimmons has the proven ability to KO guys with huge weight advantages over him; as a very accurate hitter to the head and body. I see him just being unable to handle Bob's biggest punches, and even if on his bike he gets taken out like Corbett in championship rounds.

 

to the mongoose and powerpuncher

actually i like many of the comments of he grant... and he talks with respect, he is not other infantile internet warrior.

 

this is well put and though I disagree with your overall conclusion, you put forth a solid argument.

in the end, i think the evolution vs change argument will always continue. with the **** footage we have of many greats of the past, they'll always look worse on film. we have to rely on often inaccurate reports to gauge their abilities. that works both ways in making them monsters of their time or in providing fuel for doubters who don't feel that newspaper clippings give an accurate portrayal

in the end, for me I think RJJ could pull off a win over fitz. or he could have his ribs broken. no one knows for sure and to deny evidence for either side of the argument is ignorant

 

the thing you could use as a reference though is...

every other sport ever


where its been proven that things have improved drastically, as is natural with globalisation etc.

if theres a convincing case to be made that boxing has not improved whereas every other sport has then id like to hear it, but it doesnt really make any sense especially when you consider that boxing was a relatively new sport back then, it'd be absolutely bizzare for the early boxers to have some kind of indefinable edge that was suddenly lost at some point

 

I won't commit to any claims about Jones beating any SPECIFIC heavyweights, but I do think that he'd have a fair chance against a fair number of them who did not have the right combination of Speed, Power, skill and accuracy to land on him systematically.. Therefore its obvious that someone like Lennox would be the worst possible match that Jones could ever take, but I don't think there are many others who fit that bill. When Jones fought top rated John Ruiz in 2002, he was already around 34 years of age and in the very first and only heavyweight bout of his life, without taking any tune-ups to acclimate properly to that weight class. Nevertheless, he handedly outboxed and outclassed Ruiz in just about every single round without working up a sweat. A younger Jones, with more preparation and a few easy bouts at heavyweight, could have developed into a force at that class, and while I'd never pick him to be one of the division's marquee fighters, he certainly could have been a champion against the right opponents.

 

This.

Boxing a new sport back then? :rofl

 

Matching fighters this far apart is usually a waste of time tbh, there really is no way to judge how someone like Peter Jackson would do against Larry Holmes, it's inscrutable.

I just think that both guys are great fighters; but fitzy is proven greater in terms of ability and resume imo by a large margin. he's a deadly hitter, a clever blocker, and his own feinting would help him out against Jones' jukes and clowning moves(as i suspect would be a similar occurence with Ali and Walcott, for example). I see Bob managing to land, and that isn't good for Roy.

 

first part: bang on. there's no way to know. theories are great but like you said, they're just too far apart

second part: the ali/walcott comparison makes a lot of sense and would give fitz his best chances. for me, like archie moore did, fitz is gonna have to set a LOT of ****ing traps to deal with what i can only assume is a large speed advantage for jones. he was that kind of fighter though and certainly had the savvy to get things done. jones physical brilliance shouldn't be underestimated is all

 

Agreed.

Jones Jr would get cockier with the showboating quicker than Moorer did and he'd probably start dropping his hands earlier. George would flatten him with one big right hand in the process.

The only way Jones Jr wins this fight is by staying smart, protecting himself and running his way to a UD win and not letting Foreman land one of his big bombs.

 

i hate pulling the morrison card but if he can do it, jones can. totally within his ability, just does he pull it off or is he stupid and cocky. jones was certainly cocky but not particularly dumb

 

morrison was a very strong hw, with longer reach than jones , morrison did not have great chin but still he had better chin than jones, morrison was much more dangerous than jones at hw, morrison would ko jones. any version of foreman would ko jones with an average blow of foreman in the face.

 

it wasn't morrison's chin or strength that beat foreman but his game plan. a game plan jones COULD duplicate. doesn't mean he would but he could.

any version of foreman would ko alex stewart. except he didn't. he got the holy **** beaten out of him. movement troubled old george and jones could bring that

 

the chin is ALWAYS a factor against george foreman(morrison did not avoid every shot from foreman), he ran from foreman yes, but still he had size to fight against foreman,jones not, foreman can finish a fight with a single shot, alext stewart was much bigger than jones, he was a very hard puncher and still he ran from foreman, it is because he lost the fight, he got knocked down twice. jones was a little mw my little friend. roy jones would get ko by any version of foreman. jones should run from foreman during all the fight, foreman would destroy the jab of jones with his jab

 

i'll be honest, i wouldn't put money on jones per se, but i'd give a focused, primed jones 40/60 shot of taking foreman over 12. i agree foreman had the power, i just don't see him landing flush on jones all night if roy is on point

 

jones might run, he could outbox him, but old foreman would catch jones in some point and he would need only a single shot. (because we are talking about old foreman)