Why 87 Tyson beats 66 Ali...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by TheOldTimer, Oct 29, 2013.


  1. TheOldTimer

    TheOldTimer Active Member Full Member

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    Before entering a debate like this one has to acknowledge that proposing results for hypothetical match ups which will never take place can never be highly accurate. One would imagine that to best increase accuracy one has to have conducted extensive research into the lives and times of the fighters in question, to have reviewed extensive tape of the fights of the fighters and to have some understanding of their disposition. While extensive research for many past and present fighters is possible, for many it is not. Tape evidence of these fighters is often non-existent, or limited and of poor quality and so historic accounts and records are often relied upon to assess match ups. Frequently nostalgia has an overwhelming influence on these kind of debates with past fighters taking precedence over modern fighters. For example one might ask; who would win if Harry Greb fought Marvin Hagler? Many would say Greb would easily beat Hagler, but these match ups are inconceivable since footage of Greb's fights are no longer available whilst footage of Hagler's are.

    Who would happen if a peak Tyson fought a peak Ali?
    This is probably the most common debate in boxing and certainly a very intriguing match up. Thankfully this debate is possible since extensive film of both fighters is available. Before I comment on the fight and who I think would win and why, readers must accept that this prospective fight takes place before Robin Givens, Ruth Roper and Don King came into and out of Tyson's life, a time where Tyson was a very happy and a very proud fighter with an excellent reputation. It also takes place before Muhammad Ali's exile and arguably at the peak of his powers.
    Ok here we go...
    Muhammad Ali undeniably fought killers all throughout his career and was never intimidated, so to suggest a fight with Tyson would be any different would be anatomically inaccurate. As for Mike Tyson, he is inhibited not by the fighter, but by the moment, so it doesn't matter whether its Jack Johnson, or Joe Louis or Muhammad Ali in front of him, its how Tyson feels on the night that dictates his performance. This should mean that any pre-fight attempt at intimidation or psychological warfare by either fighter would be ineffective and not telling on the outcome of the fight. Therefore this fight is fought and won in the ring. Because of this I Immediately rule out the possibility of a Muhammad Ali win. Why?
    Tyson at his peak is simply too skilled and Ali too flawed to beat Tyson. Tyson at his best was a finely tuned destructive machine, splendidly trained with excellent aggressive and defensive skills and he makes very few mistakes. Ali on the other hand has many defensive flaws and makes too many tactical errors in the ring. For example Ali did not know how to properly hold his hands, or how to duck (he pulled back or sidestepped), nor did he know how to parry or block a jab. (The Norton fights are most indicative of this). If you look at Ali on film, he held his right hand out to the side and did not have it in position to block a jab. That is why Ali had problems with certain fighters like Doug Jones and Norton, quick handed fighters with a good left jab and hook have always caused him great difficulty. Ali never learnt the rudiments of classical boxing, he relies on his reflexes and ultra-fast speed for his defense, this became apparent in his later career. Ali holds his hands low, he drops his right hand before throwing a right uppercut from the outside every time he throws it! These defensive pitfalls are perfect for a polished pressure fighting counter pucher like a Mike Tyson or a Joe Louis to exploit.
    Ali's best offensive weapon is the left jab and the straight right hand. One of the best things that Tyson does at his peak is to get away from straight punches and to counter with aggression. Ali would be missing all over the place and receiving too many hard fast counter shots in return.
    Tyson by KO or UD.
     
  2. boxerlove

    boxerlove Guest

    This question will never lose it's stupidity.

    Tyson struggled to beat and KO a Muhammad Ali wannabe (James Tillis). There's no way he'd beat Ali. Even Tyson admitted that he never would (he sounded offended that someone thought he could beat Ali).

    Ali in the 60s got away with all that **** because 99% of heavyweights couldn't get away with what he could, he was that 1%.

    Tyson did not have the mental strength required to beat Ali.
     
  3. G Man

    G Man Boxing Addict Full Member

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    And how many utter bums did Ali struggle to beat or KO?

    The TS produced a well written argument and you dismiss it as stupid then come out with something stupid yourself.

    Tyson in his prime had mental strength in abundance, plus all the necessary skills speed and power to beat Ali.
     
  4. boxerlove

    boxerlove Guest

    I respect his argument, but Tyson would not beat Ali. Tyson's mental strength was weak, he buckled when he fought someone that wasn't afraid (Douglas, Holyfield, Lewis).

    Ali not only fought better competition but had all the tools to keep Tyson on the outside, a sharp jab and he'd simply clinch Tyson on the inside. He was able to keep his distance through control.

    Tyson was simply not the same after 6 rounds, and Ali could easily fight 15 round fights. While Tyson could win the early rounds, Ali would be too quick on his feet, and with that jab keeping Tyson away.

    Type in YouTube:

    'Cassius Clay TKO's Prime Mike Tyson in 7 rounds AMSB Boxing Film Study - Control Is Fun'

    by user: BarryRobinson

    It explains it very well. I can't post it so if someone else could that would be appreciated.

    God bless.
     
  5. miniq

    miniq AJ IS A BODYBUILDING BUM Full Member

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    Ali would gave thrustrated Tyson and took him to deep waters... Didn't have the Frazier willpower.
     
  6. Decker

    Decker Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Frazier didn't have Tyson's speed and firepower.

    String bean blown up Lt HW Cooper decked Ali in his prime :yep
    A left hook or uppercut that lands by Tyson would put Ali into next week :dead

    Tyson stop Ali by mid rounds.
     
  7. Punisher33

    Punisher33 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I would put my money Ali, but I would be too confident in my choice. To the poster that said Tyson melted against any fighter that put up a fight. Watch Tyson/Ruddick again, I remember him taking his best shots and never going down.

    Tyson has advantages in power, combinations, and killer instinct. Ali has better foot movement, reach, and mental toughness. My money would be on Ali winning by late round stoppage or by close decision. That's one fight I would love to see.
     
  8. Manfred

    Manfred Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ali beats the **** out of Tyson.
     
  9. The Predator

    The Predator Active Member Full Member

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    Ali did not do many fault, yes he did it differently and he had the reflexes to do it.
     
  10. boxerlove

    boxerlove Guest

    Can someone please post the video? It's very insightful to as why Ali easily beats Tyson
     
  11. LondonRingRules

    LondonRingRules Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ali also said that he thought tyson would have probably knocked him out at his peak. They say it out of respect.
     
  12. boxerlove

    boxerlove Guest

    Yes. But what people have to realise is Ali was Tyson's HERO.

    But could someone please post that video?
     
  13. RoughD

    RoughD Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Prime Tyson would maul Ali to death
    Ali was overrated!
     
  14. PATSYS

    PATSYS Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    As great as Ali is, I tend to think that the prime Tyson beats him.

    Ali had always been a sucker for left hooks and Tyson has one of the best and hardest in the history of the sport.
     
  15. King Lion

    King Lion Member Full Member

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    Ali's best weapon was his brilliant boxing mind!

    His physical skills would have been more than enough to defeat a prime Tyson, but it was with his strong will and psyche that he would have destroyed Tyson, just as he did everyone else he faced in his (Ali's) prime.