Why a Prime Mike Tyson beats Sonny Liston

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mike foreman, Sep 15, 2017.


  1. mike foreman

    mike foreman Member banned Full Member

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    Part 3 of my "Why Mike Tyson beats fighter X series"

    1. Speed. Liston never dealt with such speed in his life. Sure, he had a powerful jab and hit hard, but he never had to land or avoid punches from a 218 lb heavy who was quick as Patterson but with punching power that rivaled his own. Tysons speed and defensive acumen would always keep him in position to counter Liston with clean combinations.

    If you forward to the end of the fight and look at the slow motion part, you'll see how Pattersons head movement actually caused Liston to miss a lot of punches. Why Patterson didnt take advantage I have no clue.

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    2. Size. This wont have a direct bearing but this is just to address the misnomer that Liston was just so much larger than Tyson. IMO one of Listons best showings was vs Cleveland Williams. In that fight he was 6'1 212 lbs. Tyson was 5'11 218 lbs vs Michael Spinks. So Liston was 2 inches taller but 6 pounds lighter. So no, he wouldnt be towering over Tyson. But I will grant you that Liston was an unusually built and powerfully built man.

    3. They both had power to KO the other. But Tyson took blows from SHW power punchers like Bruno, Ruddock, and Lewis. To stop Tyson, he'd have to punch in fast, accurate combinations for many rounds. One punch at a time with an occassional combination isn't going to cut it. On the upside, Liston was a better technician than Foreman.

    Tyson would retaliate in quick combos. And his speed and accuracy is alot greater than Cleveland Williams. Liston being hit by a 218 lb power puncher punching in lightning fast combinations he cant see coming probably doesnt end well.

    4. Liston doesnt have the quick hands to make up for his lack of footspeed. He'd be a sitting duck for the much faster Tyson.

    I predict a mid round stoppage in favor of Tyson. This is vs a prime Liston

    The version of Liston that showed up against Ali is dispatched in a similar and brutal fashion as Larry Holmes.

    Bottom line is Tysons mix of speed power and defense and ability to take a punch is too much for Sonny Liston. But Liston would be a tough opponent for Mercer, Chuvalo or Moorer or Lyle. Not Tyson.
     
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  2. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    So Tyson is going to come to Sonny Liston throwing hooks? great strategy. Tyson's defense worked when he was coming forward, stop that and he was all target. A decision would be made in the first 60 seconds about whether Tyson would come forward against Sonny , through the hardest jab in heavyweight history.
     
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  3. GALVATRON

    GALVATRON Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Liston was a lunger and often off balance because his feet stayed stationary with narrow legs leaning forward,unless he was moving forward with easy to read jabs coming at you or cornered you. He got away with this with much smaller guys.When he fought Wiiliams he was not the bully and was actually losing before he got the knock out....the man is not winning against Tyson ,no way ,no how!

    in the end it all comes down to accuracy as well and liston was not very accurate eeither because of the above mentioned...if you cant HIT Tyson often or when you want you cannot beat Tyson...plain and simple.

    Tyson knocks him out in 3.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I think that Liston would pole axe him to be honest.

    Liston specialized in using an opponents forward momentum against them, perhaps more than any other heavyweight in history baring Joe Louis.

    He would know that Tyson was going to come straight at him, and he would set up a carefully prepared killing field for Tyson to walk through, backing up just enough to keep Tyson walking onto it.

    He was good on the outside, good at mid range, and good on the inside, and he would have traps set for Tyson in all of these zones.

    Styles make fights, and Liston is arguably the stylistic foil for Tyson.
     
  5. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    I see some silly things on here but you sure lead the parade. The Williams fights went 2 and 3 rounds respectively with Liston stopping Cleveland extremely comprehensively.

    I don't need to spell out how silly your post is to those on the forum that can think critically.

    Tucker led Tyson after one round, and after the third as well. At least Liston pole axed Williams where as Tyson had to go all 12.

    Classic stuff.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  6. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    So not only would Liston lose to Tyson, but he wouldn't even be a tough oppenent?
     
  7. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Fight Advantages:
    Hand Speed- Tyson, Boxing Ability- Liston, KO Power-Liston, Size-Liston, Defense-Liston, Endurance-Liston, Adaptability-Liston, Foot Speed-Tyson, Strength-Liston, Jab-Liston, Cuts-No Advantage, Reach-Liston(84”) and Tyson(71”), Body Attack-Tyson:
    Total: 9-3-1 Liston. Yup Tyson wins.
     
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  8. Knights107

    Knights107 Member Full Member

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    IMO liston who fought patterson stop tyson..

    Maybe in round 8.
     
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  9. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Actually it would be a great fight while it lasts. There are so many different opinions on Liston, but he was competitive vs young Clay till RTD, and the rematch was staged, no doubt about it.

    So we must judge his abilities on what we've seen in first 6 rds vs Clay and his previous fights against top-contenders and Floyd Patterson.

    He wasn't fast, but had a great jab, punching power, and pretty good chin. Add great workrate, and physical strength. Not an easy opponent to deal with.

    However, I favor Tyson here, maybe in 12 rounds.
     
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  10. louis54

    louis54 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Maybe the most important question here is who will quit first
     
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  11. GALVATRON

    GALVATRON Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    i guess you didnt know he fought Williams twice right? Do you even know what day it is? lol

    Tucker led Tyson after rnd ONE? Wow you just blew the entire boxing industry apart with that synopsis didnt you? :bash:

    Tyson didnt have to go 12 you fool .Tucker held on for dear life against still a green Tyson who was getting yelled out by Rooney practically every rnd bc he knew he was being lazy in that fight...... dont bother thinking bc your posts are as dumb as a box of rocks! :coti:
     
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  12. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    To quote what i said -

    "The Williams fights went 2 and 3 rounds respectively"

    I'm not quite sure how (even as thick as you are) you couldn't comprehend how "fights" and the "and" in this short little sentence did not signify more than one.

    You are a very special kind of stupid.

    It was to signify just how compellingly stupid your comments were per Liston losing before he got the knockout over Williams. The fights (note the "s" meaning more than one LOL) went 2 and 3 rounds yet here you were saying he was behind. You've just made a mockery out of your own ridiculous comment.

    Let me guess, he let Tucker go the 12 at a time when he was knocking out people as quickly as possible and forging his reputation on just that? Didn't have to go 12 :pipi

    Tyson was still green? That's the best you have?

    I can see now why i always scroll past your posts as fast as humanly possible. What a shame curiosity got the better of me this one time.
     
  13. mike foreman

    mike foreman Member banned Full Member

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    See how Pattersons head movement made Liston miss with the jab? Tysons head movement would do the same thing. Patterson failed to take advantage of it. Tyson would not.
     
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  14. mike foreman

    mike foreman Member banned Full Member

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    Yep it comes down to Liston missing alot of punches and Tyson landing alot of punches.
     
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  15. mike foreman

    mike foreman Member banned Full Member

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    The one advantage Joe Louis would have over Liston is hand speed and using combinations. At least for Louis, one might say Louis can hope to catch Tyson coming in with combinations as he arguably had the hand speed to pull it off. And Louis would be playing with fire trying that.

    Liston would have no such advantages. He would have to have way quicker hands to pull that off and I cant see him doing that even in theory against an 87-88 Tyson.