Why a Prime Mike Tyson beats Sonny Liston

Both have a history of it!!!

 

If Liston took Big Cat's shots for 2 fights, he is taking Tyson's. And Liston would hurt Tyson. Liston had a telephone poll jab and that is Tyson's ultimate nightmare, gettin' stopped from coming forward. KO for Liston

Some have wrote about Liston being deceptively quick

http://cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/Article-SonnyListon.htm

 

Liston's best bet would be to throw that jab to the chest of Tyson. He wouldn't be able to slip a jab to the chest and seeing how heavy it was and how Tyson had a tendency to square up a bit, it would stop him dead in his tracks. And if he tries to get under it, he's there for Liston's uppercut.

Mike was very good at slipping a jab and countering, he did it against faster jabs than Liston's, so I think it would be a mistake for Liston to go to the head. If he frustrated Mike with a heavy jab to the chest, though...

I'd pay to watch it, is all I know for sure.

 

Taking one punch at a time that you can see coming and block is totally different than taking flush combinations from a young Tyson that you can't see coming. Like the OP said, watch the Patterson fight and see how Patterson's head movement make Liston miss.

Now imagine if Patterson was 30 pounds of muscle heavier, with a chin that could take beatings from the likes of Ruddock and Lewis, with similar speed and the proportional increase of punching power?

If this super Patterson showed up, I think the odds in Las Vegas would change in Patterson's favor.

 

Well it would be the way to bet

 

I think Marciano could possibly because of his style have been the toughest for Ali to beat. I would say Tyson if he had Rocky's work rate.

 

I've been following your h2h matchups and I think that you just place too much emphasis on weight and not enough on boxing ability. Well if Patterson shows up 30 lbs heavier to take on Liston, and you are automatically assuming that Patterson retains his same movement abilities?? That just doesn't make any sense to me.. You think Patterson had the chin? Liston's was granite. Past prime Liston KO'd him twice. That's not good enough for you?? I personally think Patterson was scared to be in the same ring as Sonny.. Don't be so fast to sell out Sonny Liston because he didn't move as fast as you like.. I would give a Prime Liston a chance against any heavy .. and yes that does include a good chance and a hell of fight against Ali . .which he faced way past his prime..

 

Super Patterson is supposed to describe young Mike Tyson. He was approximately 30 pounds heavier, had similar speed as Patterson, had a chin to take beatings from Ruddock and Lewis and was a harder puncher than Patterson by a significant margin.

Patterson was actually more skilled than Liston, he just suffered from being the smaller man and not having the chin to take Liston's power. Tyson was as skilled and fast as Patterson, with the increased size, chin and power.

Tyson at 219 lbs would actually be larger than the 214-215 pound Liston, so he wouldn't suffer from being the smaller man like Patterson did and his chin was much tougher than Patterson's chin. Like Lennox Lewis, Liston would need to land combinations on Tyson for rounds on end in order to stop him. All without taking too many of Tyson's shots in return. Good luck with that.

You mentioned a prime Liston taking Williams best shots so he could take Tysons.

A washed up Tyson took Lennox Lewis best shots and for 8 rounds. Therefore, I say Tyson, in addition to being the better skilled, faster, bigger fighter could take Liston's occasional bomb. Whenever it actually lands.

 

Again, these analogies are just complete hogwash with so many assumptions and forgone conclusions it's amazing. You totally hype up your guy and completely trash the opponent in several posts .. here you go again .."Therefore, I say Tyson, in addition to being the better skilled, faster, bigger fighter could take Liston's occasional bomb. Whenever it actually lands".. It's amazing how you think Liston is just going to do this.. You have not mentioned Liston's Jab, or the incredible powerful hooks he has or his power.. You are basically saying that he is a tomato can against Tyson.. It's unbelievable. But listen man, definitely do not take my word for it, maybe you can read what peers say(Louis, Ali, Marciano, etc.,), seems to be a hell of a lot more than the average boxing fan

 

I wonder what Marciano and Louis would have said about Tyson? In the 80's, old time fighters and trainers couldn't praise Tyson enough.

Whenever it actually lands is right, because Liston is in no way, shape or form landing at will on a prime Tyson. Im not hyping up anything. 219 pounds is bigger than 214 pounds believe it or not.

Tyson WAS faster than Liston. Maybe you, don't agree, but most of us do. On the other hand, I just read a thread that went 70+ pages on if Carnera was more skilled than Bowe. I wouldn't be surprised if there are those on here who think Liston was faster than a young Tyson.

Liston did have a good jab and he was a hard puncher. I never said he wasn't. I actually think he was a pretty good fighter with hood technical skill. I still dont think he'd have beaten a prime Tyson.

Yes I think Tyson's chin could stand up to being hit by Liston. He withstood a beating from Ruddock and Lewis for 8 rounds. Liston would have to hit Tyson with combinations for many rounds. Yes, if he could do that, he could stop Tyson. But landing a hook ain't gonna cut it.

 

Liston didn't have a good jab, he had a great Jab, an ATG jab.. which is the big question mark in this whole equation which you have been completely missing from the get go.. Now objectively, Is Liston going to be able to stop Tyson from coming in at will? And that's only half of the equation for Tyson if he gets in. Being the Tyson expert you are?, I hope you know that Tyson had a lot of problems with the tie up.. He would have to outbox Liston mid range and often, and Tyson was a master here. There are many poster's, even sound historians here, who are way more knowledgeable about boxing than me, this is ..imo .. KO for Liston in 8

 

LOL.....Liston would be the victim of an 8th round KO. He never seen a 218 pound puncher as fast and defensively sound with as great a chin as Tyson.

If people saw Tyson in the 60s they'd say "What the f..... hell"????

Stop Tyson from coming in...with what hand speed? And how is he going to block Tyson's combinations...with his chin?? Liston wasn't exactly a defensive master.

I'd give Liston a chance against the Mercers, Lyles, Bonavenas and Briggs etc of the world. Guys who would just plant themselves in front of him and make themselves available to be hit.

Against a 218 lb defensive modern HW with ATG power and ATG speed and a chin just a tier below an Ali or Holyfield chin and probably equal when it comes to absorbing single shots?....not so much.

As for the jab, it's reasonable from film to assume that even the version of Holmes Tyson beat had quicker hands than any version of Liston and Holmes had a very hard time landing a jab on Tyson.

 

I think Mike wins this, in part because in some ways he was like a faster Liston with perhaps a better defense and better-conceived aggressive game. I think Mike would be one of the few who would make Liston push himself.

Ultimately I see a 12 UD (but very interesting) win for Mike, but that depends on whether Liston really did have a heart (not sure he fully proved that, when Mike did). If Liston didn't, he quits around the 8th round or so.

 

Excellent post.

 

Hmm... I should have read @janitor's thoughts first. Those are really good points.