Why All The Jones Jr Haters

Jones' jelly jaw Shatters like no other. Fragments of his Chin can be found in both Moscow and Sydney.:roflatsch

 

what did he do? he negotiated with rjj...while he was cw champ & rjj was 175 champ. it would have been a massive money fight...but rjj wanted a massive split & ended up fighting (iirc) clinton woods instead for a massive split of peanuts.

der...i don't know...how about that in 2002 b-hop was p4p numer 1 ahead of rjj & it would have been a massive mega-money fight. but rjj asked for a massive split & ended up fighting (iirc) glen kelly for a massive split of peanuts.

no. & i've said i don't expect boxers to fight everyone. i do expect them to make a realistic attempt to make the big fights happen when the opportunity is there tho. as a fan of boxing that is what i expect.

nah. he was completely dead at 168 by then. had wanted to move up for ages.

he was a fairly insular guy who didn't promote himself very well. he didn't do all the ricky hatton self promotion stuff that builds up a huge following. he was mostly shown on sky which a lot of people didn't have back then. he had difficulty making those career defining fights...until lacy...which was shown on terrestrial television & made people sit up & notice both sides of the atlantic.

tbh it's a bit like asking why sergio martinez wasn't a big name...he just wasn't. i don't believe anyone thinks martinez spent his whole career ducking challenges tho.

well...who would he have fought "in the us"? b-hop? he made a pretty big offer to fight him in the us in 2002...b-hop said no. who were the americans in his weight class? brewer? mitchell? lacy? he faced them. what's the problem?

er...become a unified champion? won the 2 belts that joe didn't have? atsch

he offered to fight b-hop...in america...in 2002.

if you move up in weight...beat the weakest champion...then drop back down in weight...why bother? you're just collecting a trinket. what's the point of moving up at all if you're not going to make a proper fist of it? make some big fights or don't bother. i suppose trinket collecting is ok if you're a nuthugger tho.

your posts are wrong. holy lost his titles to ruiz 2 years before rjj faced ruiz. holy was coming off a loss to byrd when rjj moved up to face ruiz...rjj just wanted the trinket held by the weakest champion.

oops for you. :hi:

 

If they could build a suitable venue for Boxing in Antarctica and get Glass Jaw Roy a fight there, he could become the first man to ever get brutally and embarrassingly KOed on every continent.

 

Knockout,
thanks for the reply. I'm not typing the same responses to the steroids issue. If you want to copy and paste my debate with Head from a previous debate, that's fine.

Why not give Hopkins 50/50? Why should he have? He would have had to have come down in weight, there was no title at stake, and he'd already beaten him. Why the hell would Roy give him 50/50? Roy had nothing to gain. Do you think if Hopkins had've won in 1993 he'd have given Roy 50/50? Come on!

Listen I wish these fights had've come off, I really do. But if you'd have been in Roy's shoes, I bet you wouldn't have given Bernard 50/50! Back to his resume, yes it wasn't the best. However, it's not as bad as people make out. Gonzalez was so bad, he beat DM, who Roy was scared of fighting etc. You can pick anyone's record apart.

We know he tried to fight DM in and around 2002. The fight couldn't get made. We've discussed it to death. Dariusz couldn't agree to terms to fight in the U.S. so guess what? Roy's ducked him! Right? He went upto heavy to fight Holy. He ended up fighting Ruiz instead. Afterwards, there's concrete proof that he tried to get a Lennox and Tyson fight. But you won't take that into consideration will you? No!

Haye struggled with Valuev, who is complete and utter garbage. Valuev makes Ruiz look like Ali from 1964. Also, yes, Haye had a huge weight disadvantage, but Haye was a heavyweight. Roy had moved up in weight, and had never fought there before. Again different circumstances. I don't mind having a debate with you knockout, but you're not prepared to read the links that have been posted, because it doesn't suit your arguement.

You don't believe he really wanted Lennox? What you mean is, you don't want to believe he wanted Lennox. Go and read the links. It makes interesting reading. There's comments from Manny Steward, Murad Muhammad, etc. Roy approached Lennox late 2003. Lennox told Roy he was retiring. Yes Lennox might have knocked him out, but after the Vitali fight, he knew it was time to go. Roy pre-Ruiz and Post Ruiz are two completely different fighters.

Lennox pre Vitali, was up for the Roy fight. After Vitali, he didn't want to fight. Vitali was desperate for a rematch, but Lewis wasn't interested.

The weight issue.

Roy normally walks around at around 190. That's 15 pounds over the 175 limit. That's fat over his muscles. When he weighs in at 175 he's ripped. When he weighed 193 for ruiz, there was no fat. He was a ripped 193. After the fight was signed for Ruiz, he slimmed down a little, and then began building extra mass. He weighed just over his normal 175 walking around weight, but, there was no fat. It was pure muscle. It was a 193 pounds of pure solid muscle!

His walking around weight when he's not fighting is around 190 pounds. His Ruiz weight was around 193 pounds. But despite there only being an actual difference of 3 pounds, his body was completely different. Do you understand? Roy at 190 has to lose 10 to 15 pounds to get ripped at 175. But the Roy at 193 for Ruiz, was already ripped with no body fat. He went from 193 pure muscle, to 174 pure muscle. No fat, Just muscle. That's your difference. He had to lose around 20 pounds of muscle from March to November.

When he normally walks around at 190, he diets and loses bodyfat. After Ruiz there wasn't any fat to lose. He burnt his muscles away from 193 to 174/5. There's a world of difference between coming from 190 to 175, for an average 175 fight, to what he had to do to get from his Ruiz weight to the tarver weight. It's pretty easy to lose bodyfat, by exercising and dieting. It's a lot harder to lose actual muscle.

We've discussed the Tarver and Johnson fights. He looked sharp? Yeah until the end of the 8th round. He had nothing left in the tank for the last 4 or 5 fights. How can Tarver and Johnson be a step up? If roids give you great stamina, why has he always had stamina issues? He used to back on the ropes for a breather from the late 90's onwards. So his roids didn't help him there did he? He also coped without his roids for four years.

Maweather is a great fighter. He's still dominating at 35. But Roy was still dominating at 34 before the weight loss. How would Floyd be if he stepped upto 168 and then came back straight away to fight again at 147?

You're boring me with the Steroid thing now. Roy didn't need his roids to beat Harding (who was that rubbish, he beat Tarver) he didn't need them to beat Ruiz, and he didn't need them to beat Gonzalez (A binman who beat DM) and he didn't need them to beat Tarver the first time.

So, he didn't need roids to beat Harding, woods, Gonzalez, Ruiz and Tarver the first time, but against Johnson (who had three close fights with cab driver Woods) he badly missed his roids? Right? Haha! It has **** all to do with roids. Roy was ill and dehydrated when he fought Johnson. The fight doctors said so, but that's not good enough for you is it?

Glen Johnson fought a weight drained ghost of Roy Jones.

You still haven't answered my question.

For the final time,

Pre Ruiz, would Glen Johnson have been able to beat Roy Jones?

It's a stupid question that doesn't need asking.

Pre Ruiz, Glen Johnson would have had virtually no chance of beating Roy Jones, and you know it!

 

Metal,

You think Roy was roiding the whole time, and that's fair enough. But you have no proof that he was. Again pull up the old thread with me and Head.

Why is 60/40 in Roy's favour an outrageous demand, when he already holds a win, and he'd have had to have come down in weight? you know if Hopkins had've won in 93, he'd have wanted the same split as what Roy wanted.

If hopkins had've accepted 40% the fight would have been made. Sanitation workers? Ha good one!

So you wouldn't have done the same in Roy's shoes? You think Bernard would have given Roy 50/50 with a previous win over him? You think 60% under the circumstances if absurd?

Jones didn't make an excuse for the Benn fight. Read the links. there's statements from the Levins, Benn and Roy. I read the links myself two days ago. They were interesting and Roy clearly wanted the fight. He just din't want to be tied in. He used King reluctantly throughout his career, but they were just one fight deals.

He tried to make a fight with Lennox you idiot! Don't take my word for it. Go back a few pages, read the links from the other day. Lennox was up for it until he'd fought Vitali. After the Vitali fight he didn't want to fight anymore. These are facts not opinions.

If you don't think it's a risk, for a 175 fighter moving upto to fight a guy at 16 and a half stone, then you're a ******. I never said Ruiz was great! He wasn't. But it was a risk! If you don't think so, you've no respect for boxing or any of the fighters.

Once again go on the other thread and pull Zod's links up. There's quotes from, Manny steward, Lewis and Roy. Lewis was up for the fight before he fought Vitali. You don't want to read the quotes because it doesn't back up your arguement. He didn't run back to 175, Tarver kept calling him out.

Bull**** again that Roy approached Lennox? No try again. Also Shelly finkle wanted the Tyson fight. But again, it's all Bull**** because the factual information that I use to back up my opinions, don't suit your ridiculous comments.

 

Again, I have already answered all of this. You are full of ****. You are most full of **** on the "20 lbs of muscle issue". You do not understand how weight cutting works and therefore your opinion on anything is moot, because the cut is not hard to understand, at all. The guy never dropped 20 lbs of muscle, he dropped 7, and until you can wrap your head around that simple math and figure out how weight cutting works, we are not going to have any sort of discussion because you are oblivious to Fact. You are getting Dominated by several posters at once and you still refuse to accept that your hero is a Fraud. Go suckle Glass Jaw Jones some more.

 

Metal,

regarding your second post. You don't know what your talking about with regards to the weight. I've already typed this. How the **** can you sweat out muscle in the sauna? Idiot!

For the last time,

For an average 175 fight, he hits the camp weighing between 180-190 pounds. He's got a little bodyfat covering his physique. He diets, trains and drops from 185 to 175. When he hits 175, it's pure muscle! The 10-15 pounds he sweated and dieted for is bodyfat, that he's gained out of camp.

For the Ruiz fight, He walked around again at somewhere between 180-190 pounds. Mackie Shilstone came him and got him to slim down a few pounds. After he's slimmed down, they started building mass! When Roy it 193 pounds, it was pure muscle.

Roy's walking around weight in between fights is around 190 pounds. Roy's weight for Ruiz was 193 pounds. But despite that difference of only 3 pounds of weight, his body is completely different.

His walking around weight of 190 pounds is bodyfat over his muscles. His 193 Ruiz weight is pure Muscle. You are a ****ing idiot! If you can't take that in, I'll make it simple for you.

Roy was a ripped 193 + pounds for Ruiz. No body fat, all muscle! For Tarver he was a ripped 174 pounds. Again, no fat, all muscle! From March to Nov, he went from 193 of pure muscle to 174 of pure muscle. He didn't lose one pound of bodyfat!

For a normal fight, he could get in the sauna and sweat from 190 to 175 with hard work. That is fat that he's sweating away. After Ruiz, there wasn't any fat to sweat away. He burnt his muscle fibres. He didn't lose 15 pounds of fat like he normally did, he lost around 20 pounds of muscle!

You're just making a fool of yourself!

Again, you say he weighed the same for Tarver has he did for every other 175 fight. Yes I know, but as i've already stated, he's normally going from 190 to 175 dropping excess bodyfat that he's put on between camps. The difference with Tarver, was that he was coming from a solid 193 to 174. It wasn't bodyfat it was pure muscle! Don't be a ****ing idiot!

Do think he could have got in the sauna everyday to Lose muscle? There's a world of difference between losing fat and muscle. He was out cold for 6 mins was he? Fair enough, but the fight doctors said he was out because he was dehydrated.

Again, could Glen Johnson have knocked Roy cold for 6 mins pre Ruiz?

Erm don't think so!

 

You don't sweat out muscle or fat in the sauna. What do you not understand about this? The human body is made up of over 60% water. A fighter at, say LHW, strives to keep his body in perfect shape at around 185 lbs. That means he is 185 lb of muscle. About a week before the bout that fighter will start heavily cutting back on food and fluid intake and the day of the weigh-in he will not eat nor drink, and will often put on a trash bag and steam in the sauna to leech that water weight off. He then weighs in, steps off the scale, and chugs Gatorade or Pedialyte to replenish the fluids and recharge electrolytes. That means that Jones was already 186 lbs of solid muscle and we know this because that's what he stepped into the ring weighing. Not fat, not anything else, 186 toned, fighting pounds.

When he fought Ruiz he added 7 lbs to that. That is all. What you are telling me right now lets me know that you have never been in a gym or worked out in your life because you do not even understand the basics of this topic. Get this through your thick ****ing skull because it is YOU who is proving to not know the first ****ing thing about weight cutting.

 

Bernard was only P4P when Roy lost. Roy had proven to be a very good gate draw by that time...and a better PPV star. He was the better fighter, the bigger money maker, and had already beaten him. 60-40 was a rightful split.

 

You know with the steroids issue, I've made a decent point, we can leave it at that then.

As Ploys pointed out, a 50/50 split with Hopkins would have been big money. Instead, he took the majority of a tiny purse with Clinton Woods. Why did he take the Woods fight? Easy money, he didn't want to take on the challenge that Hopkins would have presented. As Calzaghe said at the time, Roy manages himself, and he uses his following to make fights against overmatched opponents for easy money, why would he want a real challenge?

Of course Roy would have wanted to fight Darius in 2002, when Darius was past it! Why not fight him 3-4 years prior? When the fans and HBO badly wanted this fight to happen? Are you trying to make Julio Cesar Gonzalez out to be a legit opponent? atsch

There's no concrete evidence that Roy wanted a fight with Lennox, that's conjecture. Did you see what the punching power of Glen Johnson, who's feather fisted at 175 did to Jones? And you're telling he wanted to face one of the hardest hitting Heavyweights of all time!? I'm going with logic on this one, and logic dictates that Jones probably made some noise about a fight with Lennox, to promote himself and try and promote a fight against another overmatched opponent, like a shot to **** Tyson, or Holyfield who an overweight James Toney destroyed :?

Looking it up, Roy Jones said that he talked to Lennox who said he was retiring, that's the end of it. Roy tried to make a fight with Lennox, to the same extent that James Toney tried to get a rematch with Roy, go figure.

We know how strongly Roy felt about that importance of facing his mandatories, why didn't he face Vitali Klitschko?

So what if Haye was a heavyweight, Valuev outweighed Haye by 100 pounds, and was 12 inches taller. Re-read that, 100 pounds of weight, and a 12 inch height advantage. He's no worse than Ruiz, who held a paper title that he never won off the real champion. Haye overcame a significantly larger size advantage, that should put Roy beating Ruiz into perspective. Don't try and make Ruiz out to be a far better fighter than he was, all he brought to the fight against Roy was size, and he hardly even used it! The guy was such a mediocre fighter, he was just allowing Roy to fight in the middle of the ring most of the time. To further put it into perspective, look at Ray Robinson against Jake Lamotta, Mayweather against Corrales or Castillo, Martinez against Pavlik, Holyfield against Bowe in the second fight.


With the weight issue, where are you struggling to understand this!? On fight night, yes the night of a fight, as a LHW, Roy weighed about 184-186 pounds. No fat, just muscle and water weight. when Roy faced Ruiz, he weighed about 193 pounds of muscle and water weight. Therefore, to face Tarver, he had 8 months to lose 7-9 pounds of muscle. Not ridiculous figures like 25 and 30, which are purely fictional.

Of course steroids give you greater stamina, they allow you to train harder and for longer. He coped without the roids for those years, because as I stated the quality of opposition he was fighting was so poor. Many feel Glen Johnson won all three against Woods.

As I stated, Roy was not in his prime when he fought Johnson, nor was he a shot fighter. Credit to Glen, he fought a great fight. Pressured Roy and assaulted him from the first bell, pinned him against the ropes and imposed himself. Roy was low on confidence and gunshy after the Tarver KO. Johnson never let him settle into a rhythm, and get going. When Roy was given space, he displayed that his hand speed and combinations were all there. No-one is arguing that Glencoffe is a superior fighter to Roy, that's madness. However, Glen fought the perfect fight, and Roy, whilst he had the ability to beat Johnson, never tested himself. Instead, when faced with adversity, he folded.

I would say that the Roy from the Tarver 1 or 2 fights could have beaten Glen. After he got KO'd, he became completely gunshy, and unwilling to exchange, it's excuses and revisionism to suggest that the only reason he lost to Johnson, or Tarver is because he was a shot fighter. He wasn't, and when he was given space and time, he showed he still had fast hands, fast feet and could put together sharp combinations.

[url]http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=4835&more=1[/url]

 

I endorse this post. It is filled with nothing but 100%, ironclad, irrefutable Facts.:good

Nuthugger Dominated.

 

Ploys,

this is my last reply.

Toney had the opportunity to ask for a rematch in the post fight interview. He didn't! The biggest mouth in Boxing congratulated Roy, and said he'd be back at 175. That tells me everything.

Roy fought Woods Sept 2002. He hadn't even moved up for Ruiz at that point. How could he have fought Toney? It would had to have been at Cruiser, because James could never have made 175 in 2002. He would have had no chance!

It's ok saying, derr i don't know.... But again, Roy's not going to give him an even split. Why the **** should he have under the circumstances? If Hop wanted it bad, he could have taken the 40%!

After Toney turned 24/25 he had to kill himself to make weight for every fight, like Hatton did. He never mentioned the weight issue before the fight. At the weigh in he was cocky and confident, and he weighed in at 167, a pound under the limit.

If Joe was prepared to go Stateside at 36, there's no reason why he couldn't have gone at 26. The truth is, he was happy defending at home. He kept re signing with Frank, after his contracts were up for renewal. So Frank wasnt the problem. The truth is, he was a happy doing a Eubank. Nothing wrong with that of course, but at least Eubank admitted it.

Joe was unknown in the late 90's, early 00's. I wouldn't have expected him to fight any big name at that point. But he could have fought on undercards to get noticed. Either at 168 or 175. The first few fights would have been against lesser names obviously. He really could have built himself a fan base. Two or three good/great performances would have got him the credit that his talent deserved. But he was happy defending at home.Fair play to him , but like I say, you can't have it both ways.

My point regarding Kessler, is that he hadn't beaten anyone of note. He came to the ring with two belts that Joe didn't have, but he's beaten Sciaca, Mundine, Andrade and someone called Craig Cummins. Yes Joe beat him and unified the division. But the point is, it was a very weak division. It's quite exciting now, but back then it was weak. It was a good fight with Kessler, but that is Joe's biggest win. All I'm saying is, Kessler wasn't that great.

He offered to fight Hopkins in 2002. Fair enough but he could have fought other fighters sooner. He never fought in Roy's Country or weight class, when Roy was at his best, but when Roy's been knocked out and he's old, he's happy to fly over for a final pay day. Yeah we know Joe wasn't young either at 36, but Roy was done four yeras before Joe got to him. It was a nothing win!

What the **** are you on about regarding Roy going to heavy and then coming back? I've already discussed this with you. What do you mean why bother?? That wasn't his intention was it? He wanted Tyson and Lennox, and they didn't come off. Again, read the links! He never intended to just go up and fight Ruiz, then come back. If that had've been his intention, then I'd agree with you. But he didn't go up just for Ruiz. In the end, after the fights had fallen through, he came back for Tarver.

What do you mean oops for me? Roy verbally agreed to fight Evander, just before Evander went into camp to fight Ruiz. Roy had always wanted to fight Evander. Yes Ruiz had the title. But the reason he didn't fight Evander post Ruiz, is because Ruiz had knocked him down and beaten him. Roy didn't think he'd get the credit fighting Evander afterwards. He then asked Murad to try and make a fight with Ruiz instead.

How could Roy have just wanted a trinket from the weakest champion, when He'd approached Lennox for a fight?

 

RJJ went on a media frenzy at thsi time I remember

said he wanted tyson

said he wanted lewis

said he wanted sanders


said he wanted holy in africa


He fought none of them

he talked a lot

 

they all wouldve sent him out the arena for a home run too and he knew it

they all wanted that fight