Why All The Jones Jr Haters

Knockout,

this is my last post to you, because we'll be here for a month.

A 50/50 fight would have made huge money. But Roy wouldn't share the purse equal because he'd already beaten him.

Why didn't he fight DM 3 to 4 yeras earlier? Because DM could never agree terms.

There's concrete proof that Roy and Lennox wanted the fight. You've got quotes from both fighters and Manny Steward etc. It isn't conjecture. Lewis wanted the fight before he fought Vitali, have a read.

Once again, Ruiz was mediocre. I agree. The point is, he was a very average HEAVYWEIGHT! It's still a big ask for a 175 guy to come up and fight a top ten ranked heavy.

You're saying Roids give you stamina. I'm not arguing, i'm saying, if Roy was on roids his whole career, why did he always have stamina issues? Even in his 20's?

Glen just got Roy at the right time. That's all there is to it. Roy fighting at 100% of his capabilites easily beats Glen and Tarver too.

Back to the weight issue again.

Roy weighed in at 175 pounds after a 7 week camp. Right? After a day and a half of rehydrating, he then weighed around 186 pounds right? At the weight of 186 pounds, he is fit and healthy because he's been in camp for 7 weeks. He's had to cut from his walking around weight to 175 before he rehydrates back upto 186 right?

So at 186 he's ready to go. For Ruiz, he weighed 193, that is just a difference of 7 pounds right? But the difference is, he hadn't had a 7 week camp to get from a non fighting 190 pounds to 175, then back to 186. You aren't taking that into consideration are you?

Roy walks around normally at 190. He fought Ruiz at 193. By your logic, it's just a 3 pound difference. It's like saying he just put an extra 3 pounds on to fight Ruiz, from his normal walking around weight.

But the point is, his physique at his 190 walking around weight, is a world away from his fighting weight of 193 pounds. Yes the difference is just 3 pounds, but his body is in completely different shape. You're just subtracting the weight difference of his rehydration weight of 186, from his fit and healthy fighting weight of 193.

So, Roy weighs 193 for Ruiz right? We agree? Yes?

Roy's fight night weight at 175 pounds is around 186 right?

That is just a difference of 7 pounds right?

193 minus 7 is 186? Right that is where your sums have come from.

193-7 is 186.

But for Roy to get to that rehydration weight of 186, he has to train his bollocks off, lose bodyfat from 190 to 175 (that's 15 pounds of FAT) in a 7 week camp, to then rehydrate to 186.

Take away Roy's 7 week camp, and there's no way his body is a solid 186 and ready to fight.

By that logic, Roy could not bother going into camp, and just lose 4 pounds from his 190 walking around weight to end up at the same weight of his 186 rehydration weight.

So, he goes into camp at 190 for 7 weeks, hits, 175 at the weigh in. Then rehydrates to 186.

Let's say he doesn't go into camp at 190. He just cuts back on his food, and runs. After a week or so, he gets down to 186.

Right?

After 7 weeks of training, his fight night weight is 186 pounds.

After 1 week of just watching his food, and the odd run, his weight is the same 186 pounds.

Right? Both weights are the same? Yes? BUT you haven't taken into account, his 7 week camp and the strength he has at the weight!

If he loses 15 pounds of bodyfat and trains for 7 weeks, he fights at 186.

But if he doesn't go into camp, loses just 4 pounds, he can get to the same weight of 186 pounds. BUT, He can't fight at that weight can he? Beacause he wouldn't be fit at that weight. Despite weighing exactlty the same, he wouldn't be in any shape to fight!

Both weights are exactly the same. But the different versions of him, would be worlds apart from each other.

I can't explain it any clearer. You're taking his 193 Ruiz weight, subtracting 7 pounds and ending up with his average light heavy 186 rehydration weight. That's your 7 pounds. But you're not taking into account, his 7 week camp that he has to go through , just to get to that point.

He trained for 10 weeks and built mass to weigh a fit and healthy 193 pounds for Ruiz.

He was solid. He then had to weigh in at 175 or under to make weight for Tarver.

Subtract a fit, healthy weigh in weight of 175, from a fit healthy weigh in weight of 193 pounds. The difference is nearly 20 pounds of fit healthy muscle. Go and do some research. Go and look at the two youtube documentaries.

You cannot just subtract his average rehydration weight of 186, (from a 7 week camp) from his FIGHT NIGHT weight of 193 pounds that he weighed for Ruiz. It doesn't work like that!

Despite only a difference of just 7 pounds, his CONDITION, and the circumstances are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT! You haven't taken into account, his whole TRAINING CAMP and the CONDITION of his body. If you don't agree, look into it yourself.

That's my last post for today.

Regards, Loudon.

 

Here's some facts for you, when Corrales was considered by many the number 1 at 130, do you know what Floyd did? He backed up his words, he fought him, and schooled him beyond doubt.

When Floyd stepped up to 135, who was the number 1 man in the division? Castillo. Despite being outweighed by 10 pounds on fight night, having torn his rotator cuff in training, and having a virus, Floyd fought him, and did enough to win a close fight. When people shed doubt over Floyd's win, he rematched Castillo and schooled him beyond doubt.

He went up to 140 and fought Gatti, who was champion and a big draw in the division, not a great win exactly, it's remembered for the brutality of Floyd's performance.

When Floyd went up to 147, he was supposed to fight Judah when Zab was lineal champ, it was a fight everyone wanted, Zab lost to Baldomir. Floyd still fought him and beat him beyond doubt

Then he fought lineal champ Baldomir, and schooled him as well.

Comparing Roy to Floyd is a lose lose situation for Roy. Floyd is an ATG, has shown he has an iron chin, an iron heart, can fight through adversity, and has been dominating the game for years now. He couldn't make a fight with Pacquaio due to Bob Arum, so he fights the next best opponent out there, in Cotto's weight division, no catchweight rubbish. Floyd's proved himself beyond doubt.

 

I'll give you Corrales but what else ? And no one is labeling Floyd an all time great I think you have that confused ..This is why Roy gets more mention in head to head matchups than most people ..And Jones eclisped Floyd's win with Corrales with his win over then James Toney .

And Gatti had been soundly beaten 5 times before he fought Floyd lost 2 of them by TKO !

And Judah well lets see losses to Corey Spinks ,Kotsa Tysu by TKO and Carlos Baldimo r before Floyd got his hands on him ..Funny as im starting to see a pattern yet you want to talk about how he has courage

And like I said the lineal champs are usually the weakest in the divisions ie : Calos Baldimor ..But I know Baldimor was a gate keeper to greantness because he was the lineal champ

And now he's fighting Cotto who has seen better days but I know its all Arums fault ..Yet is someone else does this they are ducking !


Floyd's money must have you fooled because last I checked that resume was far from an all time great one or even close to it !
Maybe you think he's an all time great but he's only great right now in an era of weak fighters !

 

As I said, Gatti wasn't a great win.

What about Castillo? The number 1 man at 135, who outweighed him significantly on fight night. Floyd had a torn rotater cuff, and a virus, and still did enough to win a close decision. Don't forget he also re-matched him to remove any doubt.

Toney is overrated on these boards, he's another steroids cheat, who in his prime got schooled by Drake Thadzi, lost twice to Montell Griffin, and could only labour to a close split decision with P4P all time great Dave Tiberi. Not only that, when he fought Roy, he was so weight drained, and dead at 168, he was a corpse. Tell me, what did Toney ever achieve at 168? What did he achieve after this fight? His next win of note came 9 years later against Jirov who was hardly great, and a shot Holyfield.

Judah KO'd Cory Spinks not long after... Floyd beat Judah and lineal champ Baldomir. I see why you're dismissing Lineal Champs, cause Roy ducked the Lineal Champs in all the divisions he fought in.

Cotto is only 31, and has arguably just recorded one of his best wins in achieving revenge by stopping Margarito. To many he looks rejuvenated, and working with his new trainer is the number 1 man at 154. Floyd fighting the man in another division.

Roy's resume consists of a green Hopkins and a weight drained Toney. It also consists of devestating KO losses to the likes of Glen Johnson and Danny Green :nut

If Floyd spent his career after the Corrales fight cherry picking paper titles, and fighting mandatories would you consider him great then?

Floyd Mayweather has an iron chin, an iron heart, can fight through adversity and has a plan B. He proved himself

 

Jesus titty ****ing Christ, how thick can one person possibly be?atsch

Weight cutting happens because a fighter wants to be as big and strong as he can possibly be at a given weight. THAT MEANS THEY NEVER ACTUALLY WEIGH THE LIMIT BUT RATHER CUT 10 OR SO LBS OF WATER WEIGHT TO MAKE IT. When Jones fought at LHW the only time he actually weighed 175 lbs was the day of the weigh-in. He would dehydrate in the sauna, ditch the water weight, weigh in, and then guzzle fluids to get back to full weight. What do you not understand about this, moron? There would be no point in cutting muscle and fat to 175 "to get ripped" and then guzzling water to get back up. The entire point is to be bigger than the division actually allows and be as strong as one can possibly be.

HIS FIGHTING WEIGHT WAS 186 LBS. HE ADDED 7 LBS TO GET TO 193 FOR RUIZ. THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE, IT IS NOT SOME ARCANE KNOWLEDGE SECRETLY PASSED BETWEEN TRAINERS AND FIGHTERS, IT IS COMMON SENSE.

Look up how weight cutting works because you have absolutely no concept of how or why fighters do it.

 

How good was Castillo ? Did he ever turn out to be a hall of famer ?

Regardless of your opinion of James he was the number 1 super middle weight and one of the best fighters p4p who was the favorite to beat Jones ! The weight drain excuse is something people cling on but Toney never had issues before or after Jones buts a conveinent excuse to discredit Jones ! Go look up beyond Glory and watch what Arum had to say on Toney's weight issues ..He's always had issues with weight but ha never been out boxed until he fought Jones !

Judah was already a beaeten man several times over before Floyd fought him ..So please spare me the lineal crap when Judah wasn't even anyone's top 10 when he got to Floyd and if he was I'd like to see that after losing to Baldimor ! Roy was unsidputed champ when did Floyd ever unify anything ? And im not going to get into that lineal crap when no one even ranked those fighters as the best in the division !

Ok so you say to build him up as a worthy opponenet but you know he's damaged goods ..Wonder who the favorite is for this fight :think

Paper titles the man fought Baldimor and Gatti you telling me those were the strongest people he could have fought Yeah you don't know what your talking about ! Floyd fought the very least dangerous champs yet you want to talk about who Jones ducked and fought ..This is also the same guy who retired from boxing only to come back and fight a much smaller opponent !

And its easy to **** on a guy when he's past his best but his legacy will carry him much further than the 2 guys with the undfeated records !




And Hopkins actually had one more fight as a pro

His record was I think 22-1

Jones 21-0

Hopkins didn't lose another fight until 10 yrs later ! So I don't what green your talking about !

 

Roy was never really the undisputed LHW Champion of the World. He picked up DM's vacant belts which were stripped from him and never tried to fight the man and prove anything. Why? Because he had no Chin and he avoided all fights where that would have been proven.

 

thick?? you're not American. nobody uses that word here

 

:rofl:rofl:roflatsch

I hope you are not a detective, because if my using a word that is synonymous with "dense" or "moronic" is proof to you that I am not American when my location clearly tells you that I am, you are no Sherlock Holmes. I lived in the UK for a year when I was in college and because of this, I sometimes appropriate terms widely used in British English. Maybe "thick" is one of these.:huh

 

Metal, his normal fight night weight would be 186 pounds. But that's a fit ready to fight weight of 186 pounds after a 2 month camp. The Ruiz weight was 193 pounds. All your doing is finding the difference between the two weights. The difference is just 7 pounds, I agree, but the circumstances are completely different. Go and read my reply to knockout for an example that I gave. On fight night roy weighs 186. Let's say he didn't go into camp at his 190 walking around weight. Instead he goes fishing with his kids and just watchers what he eats. At the end of the week he weighs himself and he weighs 186 pounds. His fight night weight is 186 pounds. After a week of fishing his weight is 186 pounds. Both weights are exactly the same. They're both exactly 186 pounds, but the versions of him are a million miles apart!

His Ruiz weight was just 7 pounds heavier than his average 186 fight night weight. But he didn't just put 7 pounds of weight on to fight Ruiz. Because He wasn't coming from his fight night weight to get there! The circumstances are completely different. You're just subtracting his fight night weight of 186 from his 193 ruiz weight and coming up with 7 pounds. It doesn't work like that!

 

You just said it, fit-to-fight weight 186 lbs. He cut 11 lbs on the day before his fights to make the 175 lb limit. That means that he was in-shape and muscled at 186 and cut 11 lbs of water by sweating in a sauna and not eating or drinking to make the limit.

WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS? HE NEVER WEIGHED 175 EXCEPT FOR WHEN HE WAS DEHYDRATED THE DAY BEFORE THE FIGHT. HE WAS 186 LBS OF SOLID MUSCLE WHEN IN FIGHTING SHAPE FOR LHW. ON FIGHT NIGHT AGAINST RUIZ HE WAS 193 LBS OF MUSCLE. HE ADDED 7 LBS, NOTHING MORE AND NOTHING LESS. THIS SHOULD NOT BE BAFFLING YOU IF YOU ARE NOT COMPLETELY ****ING ******ED.

atschatschatschatschatschatsch

 

He didn't just add 7 pounds to face Ruiz! There was a 7 pound difference in weight but he didn't just add 7 pounds!

For a normal fight Roy weighed in at 175 and fought at 186. To get to that rehydrated weight, he originally came from around 190, and after 7 weeks he went from 190 to 175. After he hit 175 he rehydrated back up to 186. For Ruiz, he didn't have to come from 190 to 175 in the first place did he? The circumstances from a normal 175 camp, to the Ruiz camp are completely different.

He didn't dehydrate and then rehydrate for Ruiz! He just put mass on slowly. He weighed 193 for Ruiz. For an average fight at 175 he rehydrated to 186. That where your 7 pounds are coming from. But you're not taking into account how Roy got there in the 1st place.

The difference in weight is 7 pounds, but the two versions of Roy you're comparing are worlds apart. Yes Roy's average fight weigh on the night is 186. For a typical 175 fight after he's lost a little fat, dehydrated himself and then rehydrated himself. For the tarver fight, his camp was completely different. Instead of going from his 190 walking around weight to 175, his weight was a solid in shape fighting weight of a 193 pounds.

The difference between Roy's average walking around weight, and his Ruiz fight weight is just 3 pounds. But his physique and his conditioning would be miles apart. His Ruiz weight was 193 and his fight weight was 186. But before he ends up at 186, first he weighs in at 175 for An average light heavy fight!

Just because there was a 7 pound difference between his average fight night weight of 186 and his Ruiz weight of 193, that does not mean that all he had to was to lose 7 pounds! He was a strong ready to fight 193. He had to go from 193 to 175 to make the weight! That is the weight difference! If he just lost 7 pounds then he'd have weighed 186. The limit is 175. Yes we know he often fought at 186, but he went to 175 first, before he came back.

I understand your sums. But your logic is off! A typical camp for a 175 fight from his walk around weight, is completely different from him coming back down after Ruiz!

So yes when he fought a light heavy he fought at 186 fight night. When he fought Ruiz, he fought at 193. But when he came back for tarver he didn't just lose 7 pounds. There's 7 pounds difference in weight from 193 and 186, but that does't mean he just had to lose pounds. His physique and his training camps weren't the same as the rest of his fights.

Roy's weight was 193 for Ruiz. His walking around weight was 193. If he didn't train, and just ate, he could add 3 pounds to make the same weight.

A fit fight night Roy would weigh 193.

An out of shape Roy who hadn't done anything, could also weigh 193.

Both versions would weigh completely the same.

But their physiques and conditioning would be world's apart!

Do some research! There's a 7 pound difference in weight, but he had to lose around 20 pounds. It's on YouTube. Go and look!

 

That should have said, Roy's walking around weight was 190, not 193.

I'm bored now. Do some research and then get to me. I've explained the best I can. I can't give you any more examples. Google it it go on YouTube, then come back to me.

Regards, loudon.

 

Sure sure .Roy was in the top p4p for over 10 yrs when did Floyd finally break the top 10 ? When he beat Gatti ..

And Boxing Monthly 1999
175lbs/12st 7lbs
1: Roy Jones, 39-1, WBC/WBA champ
2: D. Michalczewski (Ger.), 39-0, WBO champ
3: Reggie Johnson*, 38-5-1, IBF champ
4: Graciano Rocchigiani* (Germany), 40-4-1
5: Lou Del Valle*, 28-2
6: Eric Harding*, 15-0-1
7: Montell Griffin, 35-2
8: Antonio Tarver*, 12-0
9: Michael Nunn*, 53-4
10: Derrick Harmon*, 17-0


I wonder how much opinion you actually use as opposed to facts :goodJones also beat 6 out of the top 10 guys in the division ..While Floyd well I don't recall him cleaning out anything ,and better yet he beat a bunch of hasbeens on his way up to welter after 135 ..So yeah I'll let you tell it ..