Why All The Jones Jr Haters

so jones weighed in at 193 for ruiz and then he had to lse 20lbs of muscle to get down to 186 for the tarver fight?

 

Figures like 20 and 25 pounds are physically impossible! atsch

Roy enters the ring to fight Ruiz, in fighting shape, not drained, and is 193


Roy enters the ring to fight Tarver, in fighting shape, and weighs around 186 pounds.

Can you not do simple maths? More excuses. What Roy Jones weighed when he wasn't training or fighting is completely irrelevant! 186 is the figure Roy was in, when he's in prime fighting shape. 193 was the figure for Ruiz, it's 7 pounds extra of muscle added, and lost.

Roy doesn't hit 175 at the start of camp atsch The only time he would weigh 175 is for a brief period when he's cutting, and draining water weight. Then he rehydrates back up to his usual 186. Against Ruiz, take his prime fighting weight of 186, add 7 pounds of muscle and you have 193.

All of this nonsense about walking around at 190 is irrelevant, we're talking about prime fighting condition on fight night, and the difference is 7 pounds.

It's excuses on top of excuses, completely ignoring any actual facts or logic.

Here's one for you, Archie Moore, a true ATG LHW stepped up to HW, and back down, went back up, and back down constantly, it didn't have the ridiculous effects on his body that RJJ fanboys make out. Moore would weigh in at 174 for a LHW bout, weigh in at around 200 for a HW bout, and weigh in at 174 again for a LHW bout. He did it regularly.

[url]http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=008995&cat=boxer[/url]

Look at how Moore would weigh in at 180, and beat fighters weighing 200 and over. Go back down to LHW and win there, and do this regularly.

Face it, Roy's career is more full of excuses and revisionism, than any other fighter. He's no ATG, and he has P4P one of the worst glass jaws in history

 

186 was his REHYDRATION WEIGHT after he weighed in at 174.

Do you understand?

Roy weighed 193 for Ruiz.

On the night of the fight against Tarver, he weighed 186 pounds.

That is a difference of 7 pounds AFTER HIS CAMP.

Roy ends up coming in for Tarver gloved up at 186.

The day before he hits 174 at the weigh in. Right?

How does he go from 193 to 174, before he goes back to 186?

Before he ENDS UP at 186, he hits 174 beforehand.

How does he go rom 193 down 174? He loses the weight doesn't he?

I'm not arguing about the weight difference.

The weight differnce between 193 and 186, is as you say 7 POUNDS!

But, that does not mean, that all Roy had to do, was to just lose 7 pounds.

At the end of the 8 months, there is only a 7 pound difference in weight.

But you're not taking into account, how he first got to 174, before he ENDED UP AT 186.

Yes the OVERALL difference is just 7 pounds. That's what he ENDED up at.

But he didn't just lose 7 pounds of weight. He had to drop from a strong healthy 193, to a strong healthy 174.

The difference between those two figures, is the actual weight that he lost.

Just google it!

 

Did you take a look at Archie Moore? Really puts Roy's weight excuses into perspective.

[url]http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=008995&cat=boxer[/url]

 

Knockout,

He enters the ring to fight Ruiz, at a fit and healthy weight of 193 pounds. Yes?

He enters the ring against Tarver, at a fit and healthy weight of 186 pounds. Yes?

You agree with the above?

But before Roy eventually comes in weighing 186 for Tarver, BEFORE ALL OF THAT, HE HAS TO WEIGH IN AT 174 POUNDS. AFTER he's weighed in at 174, he ENDS UOP BACK AT 186 POUNDS.

But how the **** does he get from 193 to the weigh in weight of 174?

Do the ****ing sums?

He has to go from 193 - 174, before he ends up coming back to 186.

All your doing is, finding the fdifference between 193 and 186. Yes, the difference is just 7 pounds, i agree.

But Roy didn't lose 7 pounds from 193-186 did he?

Before he eventually ended up at 186, he first had to go from 193 - 174.

The ****ing weight loss is from 193 - 174.

The overall weight on fight night is just 7 pounds.

THE OVERALL WEIGHT IS 7 POUNDS.

BUT, HOW DID HE GET FROM 193 TO A 174, BEFORE HE ENDED UP AT 186?

The whole world is wrong apart from you three? Ha!

 

Archie Moore was a hell of a fighter. Fighters today have got it easy compared to fighters of the past.

Archie was a lot tougher than Roy.

I'm not arguing. All I'm saying is, Roy didn't lose 7 pounds. Yes there's a 7 pound DIFFERENCE, but he didn't lose 7 pounds. He went from 193 to to 174 BEFOREHAND!

That's all i'm saying.

 

193 is muscle and water weight atsch You seem to be ignoring this. If Roy weight drained at the 193 he weighed for Ruiz, he could have probably made 182. 182-175 = 7. I hope this highlights the 7 pound weight loss for you.


Figures of 20-25 are impossible. Are you telling me, Roy managed to gain 25 pounds of muscle in 6 weeks, whilst training his boxing skills for the fight with Ruiz? The endless lists of excuses are ridiculous, and painful. Jones jr is overrated to **** on these boards, he's one of the biggest myths going.

 

I know where your 7 pounds is coming from. But you're not taking into acoount how he prepared for an average 175 camp, and his comeback from Ruiz - Tarver camp.

I'm no good at maths, but I understand where the 7 pounds is coming from. But the 7 pounds is JUST THE DIFFERENCE AFTER CAMP.

Look, we'll be here all day.

If you've got time to reply to me, then you have time to either, watch a few mins of Heart of a Champion, a few mins of The sweet science, or you can simply google it.

Just type into google, Roy jones lost 20 pounds of muscle.

There's loads of info.

I'm not going to argue anymore.

Do you want me to put links up for you?

I will if you want?

I know there's only an OVERALL DIFFERENCE OF 7 POUNDS!

But Roy didn't lose just 7 pounds, to drop down and weigh a 174 did he? Don't you understand?

He's gloved up at 186. But before he's gloved up at 186, he has to get from 193 - 174 right?

How does he get from 193 - 174?

There's no point in discussing it any further.

I agree the difference from Ruiz to Tarver is 7 pounds, but that doesn't tell the whole story.

Either google it, or change the subject.

I'll have another debate with you about something else if you want?

 

I made a point about how could Roy be dehydrated or drained when he fought Glen Johnson, when he had that much time to adapt his body to the weight? I think that's another excuse. I think Roy was gunshy from the Tarver KO, I think Glen fought an excellent fight and doesn't get the credit he deserves from you. I made the point that when Glen gave Roy time and space, he showed his hand speed and his combinations were there, he still had quick feet

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPP9ffqGYHk[/ame]


Look at what he was capable of 12 months later, hardy looks like a shot fighter. I think Roy folded when faced with adversity, and had no plan B. Shows to me why Roy can't be compared with the great MW's and LHW's of the past, he has no chin either.

 

Knockout, good points, let's leave the weight alone then, otherwise we'll be here til xmas.

As I said in my previous post, the initial damage to Roy's body, was when he took the muscle off in such a short space of time. There's a guy on here, who I haven't seen for ages, I think he's called Tark. A few months ago, he explained in detail, with quotes, and facts, just what damage Roy did to his body. I can't go into detail, because I can't remember. But it was very interesting, and he said that he'd burnt his muscle fibres away, by doing nothing but run.

After the 9th round against Tarver, he was knackered. The rematch, was after the initial damage had been done. He got knocked out. Then, afterwards he did the most stupid thing he's ever done. Just 3 months after the knockout, he fought again in Sept 2004. I think you need to go and watch the Johnson fight. He seriously looked ill. It's nothing to do with Glen fighting a good fight. Roy didn't even win a single round. He didn't even come close to winning a single round.

His legs were gone. His punch reistance had gone, his timing, handspeed, everything. Glen wasn't good enough to win 9 rounds. If Roy was at his best, Glen could possibly win a few rounds. But there's no way he could have won 9 rounds against Roy. He hasn't got the ability to be able to win 9 rounds. Roy barely lost a Rounds, and despite what you say, they wern't all binmen. He won every round against Woods, Ruiz, and Gonzalez. But he couldn't win a single round against Glen?

It doesn't make sense. The doctors after the fight said he was completely dehydrated. Who did Glenn ever knock out for 6 mins? I like Glen, but go and watch the fight. Roy had nothing. If he'd have won a few rounds, and looked good, but just got caught, then fair enough, but that didn't happen. Pre Ruiz, Glen has no chance of knocking out Roy.

Glen was just in the right place at the right time. I think any decent fighter would have knocked out Roy that night. The Johnson fight was Sept 04, just 3 months after Tarver 2.
Tarver 3 was over a year later in Oct 2005. Roy had about 13 months off. The 5th round what you've highlighted, showed Roy with his speed. But that 5th round could never have happened against Johnson. Who's the better fighter Tarver or Glen. It's obviously Tarver. How can he be capable of doing that against Tarver, yet when He fought Glen, he wasn't able to win a round?

Yes after Tarver, he was gun shy and he'd lost his confidence. But against Johnson, he was ill. I don't know why didn't have a tune up before Tarver 3, but it probably wouldn't have made much difference. But the version of Roy from Tarver 3, is completely different from the version against Johnson.

You're saying i'm not giving Glen enough credit, but I think you're giving him too much credit. He was good enough to win 9 rounds against Roy, he was good enough to brutally knock him out, but he wasn't good enough to beat Clinton Woods?


He didn't fold in adversity against Tarver in the first fight.

He didn't need a plan B in his prime.

His chin was never great, but pre Ruiz, it wasn't made of glass like it is now.

But so what if he had a glass jaw?

Tommy Hearns had a glass jaw.

So what?

There's plenty of fighters that have got great chins, but they haven't got the ability that Roy had.
Good debate.

 

Don't compare Tommy Hearns to Roy Jones. Tommy Hearns was more skillful as a fighter, and showed massive heart on many occasions.

Tommy Hearns was desperate and willing to prove himself against he best of his era multiple times. He showed great skills against Leonard, the likes of which Roy never displayed. He had a plan B against Leonard, and look at the beating he sustained in the 13th round for instance, and stayed on his feet for the most part. Against Duran, he went after and blew out an ATG. Look at the fight he put on against Hagler.

Roy never gave fans fights like that, his two best wins against Hopkins and Toney were awful fights! He went 12 rounds with off duty policemen, and cab drivers plenty of times in his prime.

Hearns had a shaky chin, Roy got put in a coma by feather fisted Glen Johnson...

 

I think that Glen fought the perfect fight, he jumped Roy from the very opening bell, Roy was already low on confidence, and Glen smothered him. I agree in his prime, Roy wouldn't have allowed that, and wouldn't have gotten pinned down so easily. However, I believe the issue Roy had against Glen Johnson was a mental issue, he was gunshy. When given time and space, he showed his superior hand speed, skills and combination punching. Johnson took advantage of Roy's weak mental state, fair play to him. Roy, when faced with adversity, had no plan B, he folded like a deck chair.

I find it hard to believe he was drained or dehydrated, he had plenty of time to adapt to the weight, he wasn't drained in the first or second Tarver fights. He had become well accustomed to making 175, he made it many times after as well... I think it was mental issues, more than physical

 

Did you really just use boxing rec

Another boxing rec warrior :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

 

Knockout,

I'm a huge Tommy Hearns fan, huge! But i used him as an example, because you're slating Roy for having a glass jaw. I'm not comparing them, and I know how great Tommy was. But Tommy had a bad chin like Roy.

It doesn't mean that he wasn't one of the greatest fighters of all time does it?

You slate Roy for a glass jaw, but when I mention Tommy, you jump on me.

I'm admitting that Roy has a glass jaw, but that doesn't mean he wasn't one of the greats.

Also, Tommy was lucky that he was in a great era. Tommy was part of the fabulous four. He was an all time great, but he was lucky that he had SRL, Hagler and Duran to fight.

Roy never had rivals like Tommy did. That was just unlucky. Roy's nearest rival was James Toney at 26. That was Roy's biggest fight.

Ali had Frazier, Foreman, Liston.

Robinson had La Motta, Basillio.

Roy only had Toney and Hopkins.

That's not Roy's fault, that he didn't have great competion.

Unless you're going to go to Pensacola in Micheal J Fox's silver Delorean, what do you want him to do?

You can't say Hearns fought Leonard, but all Roy did was fight Toney.

That's unfair on Roy. Toney was Roy's biggest rival, and he fought him.

It's ok you saying he only fought cops etc, but he didn't did he. Everyone fights bums, but Roy had some good wins against good opponents.

I've said this on another thread, but no one is willing to do it.

Go and look at who Roy Fought.

Look at the guys they fought, before they fought Roy.

Afterwards,

Go and look at who they fought and beat, after they'd lost to Roy.

It makes very intersting reading.

Quick example.

Julio Gonzalez.

Was he a binman, cop, janitor? which was he?

Roy beats him easily in 2001/2, and what happens the following year?

He goes and beats DM, who wouldn't come to the U.S. who Roy is apparently scared of.

The great DM who Roy wouldn't fight, loses to a guy who Roy's schooled.

That's just a quick example.

DM was the man in 2002. All you lot say so.

What happened just a year later, was he shot to ****, when Gonzalez beat him?

The truth is, Roy was SO GOOD, he made people look like binmen!