Why All The Jones Jr Haters

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Calzaghe missed a lot of guys as well.
At smw he missed Liles. If he moved up sooner he could of fought Jones, Tarver, Dawson, G.Johnson,R. Johnson and Darius
He openly ducked G.Johnson and Pavlik

 

Jones was not really a draw through out the 90's. His ppv figures were terrible.

 

Knockout,

Good reply.

First off, Lennox Lewis after the fight with Vitali, knew that his time was up. After Roy fought Ruiz, before Lennox fought Vitali, Lennox was up for a fight with Roy. There's quotes from him, from those links of Zod. But he never thought he'd have that much trouble with Vitali. After the fight with Vitali, he didn't want to fight again. Vitali wanted a rematch for obvious reasons. Lennox wasn't interested in one, no matter how much money was on the table. He knew that there'd be a good chance of getting beaten. Roy approached him late 2003, and he said to Roy, that he definately wasn't going to fight again.

I wasn't implying that he was scared of Roy. That's stupid! But he told Roy, that he didn't want the fight. He couldn't have fought Roy, but not Vitali, because everyone would have gone mad. The only thing he could have done, was fight a rematch with Vitali first, and then have a fight with Roy. But, he had no intentions of fighting Vitali again. I think Roy could have beaten Lennox at that point, and I'm serious. Not earlier, but at that point, late 2003. Tyson was finished too. I think Roy would have beaten him at that point. Danny Williams knocked him out the following year.

Back to your original post, whoever I mention, your going to criticize. He knocked Tate out with a left hook from nowhere. He knocked him out in 5 mins. That Body shot against Hill was unbelievable. The first win against Tarver, when he had nothing left for the last four rounds, showed you the courage he had. The ruiz fight was a dangerous fight for him. You're just looking at Ruiz, from a heavyweights perspective. Was he a good heavyweight? No he wasn't. But Roy was coming up from 175. Malinga gave Benn trouble, Reggie was good enough to beat Collins. I'd have loved to have seen Roy fight a younger Mike McCallum. Mike was a fanatastic technition.

Any former 168 or 175 fighter coming upto heavy, is taking a huge risk. You're not giving him enough credit. If Joe had moved upto heavy and fought at top ten ranked guy, or a Champion, it would be a huge win,because of the circumstances. Evander obviously wasn't at his best in 2003, but only two years ago he beat Valuev, but was robbed. I don't rate Valuev at all by the way, but you can see where I'm coming from.

Ruiz beat Holy and knocked him down. He outweighed Roy naturally by four stone, and over 2 on the night. Roy's a former 154 pound fighter. He wins every round, and then afterwards, people say, Ruiz was garbage, the win shouldn't even count etc. It's ridiculous! A lot of fighters, and jouralists had Ruiz To win. Not because he was better, but because of the circumstances. Give the guy some credit. He beat Ruiz, and then persued Tyson And Lewis.

I'm sick of hearing people say, he picked the worst heavy out there, then ran back down. No he didn't! The Tyson fight fell through, and so did the one with Lewis. All the while, Tarver was goading him into a fight. I really got under Roy's skin and he crashed the press conference with Ruiz. If Tarver hadn't have been goading him (if Tarver had've beaten Harding, they'd have probably have fought earlier) Roy probably would have stayed at Heavy, or he may have had a fight at Cruiser.

Of course talent and ability wise Roy's up there with the Fab Four. That's not even up for debate. The names that re missing from Roy's resume, aren't really fighters of a generation are they? They were some good fighters there, but Roy not fighting Benn for example, wouldn't have been like Leonard not fighting Hagler or Hearns. It's a shame those fights didn't come off, but it's not an absolute travesty that they didn't. Of course Toney isn't as good as the Fab Four, but at 26, he was the best fighter out there for Roy to take. He was always weightdrained, just like Hatton was.

You say Toney, Hopkins and Ruiz were awful to watch. That's your opinion. The Toney fight was a huge fight at the time. Toney never complained about making weight at the weigh in and press conference. Zod's got links from the book The Dark Trade. He was cocky and confident and he came in at 167. Also, he had the opportunity to ask for a rematch and he didn't. He did later, but not after the fight. I don't think he really wanted a rematch.

The Hopkins one was boring. But Roy was only 24 and he had an injured hand. But it was a bad clash of styles.

The Ruiz fight was intriguing, becuase of the circumstances involved. You knew that If Roy got caught, the fight was certainly over. I thought it was a great performance, and he deserves more credit.


Yes of course the Fab Four gave us better fights. But they all had each other to fight. They were all as good, and around the same age. They were great great fighters, but they were lucky they had each other. Like I said yesterday, Tommy had three James Toney's to fight. Roy fighting Eubank, or the G-man, wouldn't of been the same has Hagler fighting Hearns.

Roy fought the best two fighters of his era.

Great debate.

Regards, Loudon.

 

Beating prime James toney and Bhop isn't proof? :deal

 

Contrary to idiotic opinion by some on this site. Jones actually had a very good resume against top fighters.

James Toney
Bernard Hopkins
John Ruiz with 30 lbs on him
Virgil Hill
Reggie Johnson
Julio Cesar Gonzales
Jorge Fernando Castro(In his 18th fight)
Antonio Tarver
Destroying Thulani Malinga after both Eubank and Benn had gone life and death with him(and before he beat Benn)

Steamrolling Clinton Woods who would go on to go 1-1-1 with Glen Johnson.

Eric Harding coming off a win over Tarver.


But the haters would have you believe he just fought civil servants and taxi drivers!

 

Zod your always a welcome change to these boards..Question what happend to Collins after Reggie Johnson ? The offer above was that before his fight with Johnosn ? I thougt there was a quote from Dibella saying that the Collins fight would have not made sense since he lost to Johnson ?

 

Irishny,

I couldn't agree more!

 

Zod, Loudon, and Irishny great posts! Disagree with a few things but nonetheless great job guys for being quality.

Also forgot that Ruiz was a weak champion but he outweighed Jones by like 30 pounds and still got beaten soundly. Maybe I am being harsh on Jones but the roid spectacle still can't be ignored and leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Plus I can't call him great in the same sense as Spinks, Moore, Charles, or even Saad though it's hard for a fighter wiling to prove themself great in a weak era(Hopkins and Toney were still quality wins but did the roids kick in or was he really naturally "Superman"?)

Cheating is cheating and if people feel strongly that Marga should not have fought again then the same should be said for other though loaded gloves are different. Still respect Mosley for being eager for taking extra testing despite drug past. Despite drugs ok maybe he would be considered great but if he were to undergo extra testing post-Hall I would have more respect for him.

 

Excellent research. Yet another one of Roid Jones' fanboy arguments exposed .

 

Hi Techks,

I've discussed the steroids issue to death, so I'm not going through it again. But people on here are adament that he'd been roiding his whole career. There is no proof at all. It's just their assumption that they try to pass off as a fact. With roids he could train harder, for longer, but it wouldn't affect any of his actual skills. Also, I've been made aware that roids give you a huge stamina boost. Well if that's true, why has Roy always had stamina issues? Even in his 90's prime at 26/27, he always used to back onto the ropes for a breather. He did it to lure certain fighters in, but a lot of the time, he did it for a break.

If it wasn't the roids issue, it would be something else. Ruiz for example, the guy wasn't great, but he wasn't completely garbage either. Roy beats him easy, and all of a sudden, the win shouldn't count. The reason Roy beat him so easily, is because he was that great, he just made it look easy.

You can pick anyone's record apart.

regards, Loudon.

 

Another solid post, Loudon. Wish more posters had the run you do this thread would be more insightful.

Back to the topic, in other threads I did mention that steroids don't improve ring IQ that Jones had or the overall cageyness that Toney had. Its specualation to assume they did that their whole careers but yes steroids don't give an athlete every advantage and guys can still lose will on them(Vargas/DLH). Good point about Roy's stamina but TBF I didn't really notice it that much in fights of his prime. Would explain why he liked to cruise to a decision. Also gave him credit for overcoming the weight disadvantage against Ruiz which he did on smarts and beating the best guys he could in Toney & Hopkins.

 

I will answer your other post later

To this, you state there is no proof, but you never answer this question.

Do you seriously, I mean honestly believe that Roy only used steroids once!? Do you really believe that Richard Hall struck so much fear into Roy, that to beat him, he felt the need to juice up to the point of having 6 times the acceptable level of testosterone in his system? What did Roy see in Richard Hall as a fighter, that struck this fear into him?

Remember this was the first time Roy was tested in his professional career, and he got caught.

 

Thanks
I also have to give you credit for always sticking up for Jones. He gets bashed a bit too much these days

Im going to do a part 2 to Jones-Collins which goes into the whole thing in more depth, so I will just skim key points here.

After Collins called out Jones, you see him in the background during the postfight interview for Frazier, Jones gave Levin the go ahead to make the fight with Collins.

Collins took Levin at his word and started to train and look for venues. It turned out that Jones had no intention of fighting him and during the time was puting a deal together to fight Johnson.

This left both Collins and Levin looking like idiots. When asked about Collins, Dibella said he didnt know anything about a Jones-Collins fight happening. He did say that if Collins picked up a belt, by fighting Calzaghe then a Jones fight could happen down the line. Collins and Calzaghe would agree to fight and during the preparation Collins would collapse in training. The doctor told him if he fights again he would die, so Collins retired again.

A year later Levin would leave Jones, stating that Jones refused to listen to his advice, so there was no point in staying.