Why All The Jones Jr Haters

Roy was still fast of hand and foot when he fought Johnson and that was obvious on the few occasions when he decided to fire back rather than play punching bag. What happened was that Johnson was not in the least bit intimidated by him, knew that he had a Glass Jaw, and simply walked him down and fired away with near impunity. Jones never had anyone other than Tarver do that to him and not once in his career did he show that he had any way of dealing with that. So, without a Plan B he folded like a lawn chair and had his Glass Jaw shattered.

End of story.

Roy also thinks he lost to Tarver the third time so that he would prevent his dad from getting any credit and that he lost to buzz cut bum Danny Green because he was hit on the back of the head. When is it going to sink through that thick skull of yours that the man is full of bull**** excuses for everything negative surrounding his career?

Tarver went after him from the opening bell putting pressure and punches on him and Jones never could deal with that. Jones looked like his old self when Tarver would inexplicably take rounds off and not throw, but any time Tarver was on the offensive and walking him down, he just had no answer. Same thing with Johnson, but to an even worse extent than the first Tarver fight. Johnson has always had an Iron Chin and he knew that Roy had none, therefore he went straight into Jones and fought his fight.

 

Great analysis Zod!

I agree with everything you've said.

Thanks!

 

The great thing about this forum, is the huge differences of opinion. But you're so anti Roy, you won't give him credit for anything. You don't give him any credit for the Ruiz win, because Ruiz wasn't Jack Johnson and you hate Roy.

I think he was ill against Glen, and I don't think Glen was good enough to have won every round and then knock him out. If you think different then fine. But if you're telling me that Pre Ruiz Glen would have won 9 rounds and knocked him out, then I'm sorry but I don't believe you. He scores shut outs against Gonzalez, Woods, Ruiz, but hasn't got the abilty to even win a single round against Glen? Come on! Glen just caught him at the time. Glen wasn't a huge step up!

Roy fought and beat better fighters than Glen, and in their fight he was getting hit at will. When as Glen ever knocked anyone out for 6 mins? He isn't Earnie Shavers. The shot wasn't that hard. The doctors at ringside said he shouldn't have been near a ring. It doesn't make sense. Glen easily beats Roy, but then has three close fights with Woods. Roy wouldn't have needed a plan B to have beaten Johnson before he went to heavyweight.

End of Story because Zod agrees with you? You admitted to Scott that it could have messed him up, and now it's end of Story??

If Tarver was so great, why couldn't he beat him the first time? Tarver was mentally and physically at 100% for that fight. He'd always been jealous of Roy, and he was all fired up. Roy on the other hand, was disappointed that he couldn't get a huge fight at heavy. So he reluctantly came down. Larry Merchant interviewed him before the fight, and Roy said he'd had a hard time making the weight. You saw the fight. He had nothing left after the 9th round, and he still won.

Buddy McGirt was furious with Tarver in between rounds. So my thinking is, Roy beat Tarver when he wasn't really up for the fight, he'd struggled with the weight (despite what you say) and he'd ran out of gas in the final third. It looked to me like he was fighting at about 70% of his capabilities. So I think if he'd fought Tarver when he was in peak condition, physically and mentally, I think he'd have won a clear decision.

You just point blank refuse to even consider the weight issue. You can see the difference in his physiques from Woods and Ruiz. He was ripped and bulky against Ruiz. He was 35 with 50 fights, and you think him coming down for Tarver is just an excuse. But how good was Glen Johnson?

Ruiz wasn't great, but it was still a big risk for Roy. He had over a two stone weight advantage against Roy, and Roy scored a shutout. He scored a complete shutout against a guy who'd just beaten Holy and knocked him down, and then He fights Glen, and he can't win a single round? Not because of the weight, but just because Glen was that good?

Have I missed something? Was Glen, Sugar Ray Robinson? Roy embarrasses Woods, Gonzalez and Ruiz, but he can't even win a single round against Johnson? I know styles make fights, but come on? You're giving Glen way too much credit.

I want to ask a serious question to you and the other posters. If they don't agree with me then fine. I'll have a cry, and then I'll respond later. Ha!

Maybe Zod could do one of his fantastic head to head breakdowns, which are great.

Let's say Roy never went up and fought John Ruiz.

Roy vs Glen Johnson in 2003, after the Clinton Woods fight.

What happens?

Because I just can't see how Glen could have dominated for 9 rounds, and then ended the fight with a brutal knockout.

Zod thinks Roy would have beaten DM in around 2002 by UD. I agree.

Would Roy have beaten DM by UD, but then have lost by KO to Glen?

Opinions please.

I know we don't get on Metal, but good debate mate. This forum is great!

 

I'm betting most of the posters here are under 25 yrs old and probably weren't following boxing in the 90s/early 2000s, when Roy was the best thing since sliced bread. His status at the time is much greater than Floyd's is right now. Not many argued he was one of the top ATGs

 

You've made this point a few times now, Johnson was up 77-75 on two of the judges scorecards. I watched this fight not too long ago, when Johnson stood off and allowed Roy space, you could Roy's hand speed, foot speed and skills were evidently still there. He had the tools to beat Johnson, saying he 'looked ill' doesn't mean anything, he was passed fit to fight, it's like David Haye whinging about a broken toe.

Glen fought the perfect fight, sensing Roy was low on confidence and gunshy, Glen assaulted him from the first bell, pinned him against the ropes, walked through Roy's punches and continued to pressure him like never before. Roy, being gunshy and low on confidence simply had no plan B. As I said, here is Roy one year later

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPP9ffqGYHk[/ame]



Hardly a shot fighter, he was capable of beating Johnson and Tarver, he couldn't dig deep and folded instead. I think that shot Tarver hit Roy with, ruined his confidence, and made him gunshy and afraid to open up, he'd been exposed and Glen took advantage of that.

 

2 of roys best performances were against sheika and lacy, roy jones looked every bit 'superman' in those performances. if those performances were at a similar time to when jones was beating pazienza and talesco then they would be held aloft as proof of the greatness of roy jones.

 

Prime Jones wouldn't have let Tarver get away and I remember watching this fight wondering why Jones backed away both times he had Tarver hurt.
Jones was never the same after the KO

 

Hi Knockout!

Fair points. I don't agree, but good post.

It's all out about opinions, and I stand by mine. I was actually shocked when I watched that fight live. I'm going to have another look at it later.

But the ringside Doctors did say that he was completely dehydrated, and shouldn't have been fighting. I heard that mentioned a few times afterwards, and it wasn't someone from Roy's camp.

I agree that the Tarver knockout obviously had a huge psychological effect on him. I can't believe he fought Glen just three months after Tarver 2. That was ridiculous. He hardly had a break before he was back in camp.

As I said yesterday, there was quite a big gap between Johnson and Tarver 3. He'd had over a year off, and I believe that's why he performed a lot better. I think he was in much better shape physically and mentally.

Did you read my last post to Metal?

Hypothetically, If Roy hadn't have gone upto heavy, and he'd have fought Johnson in 2003, what do you think the outcome would have been?

Roy wouldn't have been gun shy, and mentally weakened after Tarver.

So do you think Glen could have still scored a KO, or do you think Glen would have won a decision?

Also, if you don't mind, Toney vs Calzaghe, what would have happened?

Many Thanks!

 

2 of his best performances? I suppose if you take his age into consideration yes. He did look sharp, but Lacy was finished.

 

...

 

Roy should not have gotten back into a boxing ring that shortly after the Tarver KO, he was clearly low on confidence, he really didn't believe in himself. In the fourth round, Johnson stood off and Roy was able to dominate using his hand speed and superior skills. Tommy Hearns for example, took a year off after the Hagler KO and looked sharp in his comeback against Shuler. Roy should not have gotten back into the ring with a World Champion so quickly,

As for the issue of if Jones had just stayed at LHW, I believe that he would have beaten Tarver in the first fight more clearly, still a close fight though. I cannot tell how the second fight would have gone, but with Jones we know that if he gets caught flush like he did, it's curtains. Tarver may well have landed that shot again, and it may well have had a similar mental effect. Johnson still would have got to him, and made it a close fight. If Roy didn't get hit by that shot from Tarver, and won the rematch, or even have lost a close decision, I think he would have beaten Johnson. I think the confidence issue as a result of that KO is a massive factor in Roy's losses to Johnson and Tarver, he lost his aura, and was never the same.

As for Calzaghe - Toney, if it's the Toney from the Roy Jones fight, I think Joe beats him hands down. Too slow, sloppy and Calzaghe would expose his poor conditioning.

If Toney was disciplined and showed up in shape, it's an interesting fight. James will want to fight on the intside, he'll want Calzaghe to lead, come forward and walk into counter right hands. Joe will want to fight at mid-range, he'd stay outside and attack in flurries. We've seen Joe get nailed by right crosses before and get hurt, and James had a very good right cross. If Calzaghe is careless coming forward (and we know Joe liked a good tear-up), he'll play into Toney's hands, and would get countered repeatedly. However, Calzaghe is an awkward opponent, he has a 'judge-pleasing' style, and is hard to outpoint. If he's throwing 70-100 punches a round, judges distance well, and avoids walking into hard shots, I think Joe takes this by a close decision. Remember, Joe is not Iran Barkley, and won't be standing in front of Toney for long, he also has the speed advantage. I think Toney could be a bit lazy at times. However, Joe was susceptible to getting dropped by right hands, and Joe will be leading and coming forward, which could suit JT well.

What do you think?

 

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No, it isn't. If you are not willing to fight the best in a division and are moving up solely to take a worthless trinket belt from the weakest beltholder, you are doing it for publicity and a payday and nothing more. I would rather see a guy Dominate his natural division and take on the best there rather than moving up to cherrypick.

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Did I say anyone could? No, but Johnson has an Iron Chin and decent enough skills to beat a gunshy Jones who never could handle pressure. Jones folded to adversity on every occasion.

 

Visit Classic mostly but I still come here every otther day or after 2-3 days.

 

Metal,

Do you think that one day we might agree on something? Ha!

Right we've been through the heavyweight issue before, but we'll go there again.

It was never Roy's intentions to just go up and have that one fight. As I've said, Ruiz wasn't great. But he was a decent heavy who'd just beaaten Holy. Holy was obviously past his best, but he wasn't shot to ****. Now you say that Ruiz was feather fisted? Well he knocked down Holy, and although he wasn't Earnie Shavers, he was a heavyweight. Roy fought his whole career against guys that weighed between 11 - 13 stone. Ruiz was a 16 and a half stone guy, and he easily had the power to put Roy away. I may defend Roy, but I tell it as I see it, and I try not to be biased.

You're too biased! A lot of people tipped Ruiz to win. You might not have been one of them, but at the time, this fight divided opinion. Head to head on ability, it was no contest. But when you put everything into consideration, it was an interesting fight. You knew that if Ruiz caught him good, that was it. How can a heavyweight World Champion be feather fisted to a guy coming from 175, who started out as a 154 guy?

Roy put in a great performance, and you say it shouldn't count. You can't have any respect for boxing or the fighters? Like I keep saying, Ruiz wasn't great. But he was decent. Have you ever thought that Roy had an easy win, because of just how talented was? As that thought ever occured to you? Why do you keep saying he had no intention of fighting Lewis and Tyson? You refuse to read the links that Zod put up. Or you've read them and refuse to believe he was genuine.

Those links prove that both Lennox and Roy wanted the fight. The only thing that stopped the fight happening, was the outcome of Lennox's fight with Vitali. He had a tough time, and he knew it was time to let go. He retired at the right time, and knew that he could lose a rematch with Vitali. Go and read the links. They're interesting. After the Ruiz fight, and before the Vitali fight, Lennox compliments Roy, and is more than up for the fight. After Vitali, he didn't want to fight again. Roy approached him late 2003, and he told Roy he wasn't going to fight again. All this is factual information, that you simply refuse to believe.

Was Johnson tht much better than Woods, Gonzalez and Ruiz? I think Glen caught him at the right time, and I think that any decent fighter would have put Roy away that night.

I'm not going to discuss the whole weight issue again. But I've never heard anyone question that it wasn't around 18 pounds that he lost. They asked Manny Stewards opinion on it, and he never said anything about it being exaggerated. There's tons of links etc on the web and nobody says anything about it only been 7 pounds. Heart of a Champion has a lot of info on it also. But we'll leave it at that.

Of course you're going to say you think Tarver won the first fight. You'd never admit to anyone on here that Roy had won.

Why do you keep mentioning Vitali all the time?

Lennox fought Vitali in June 2003 I believe? His face was cut to shreds. He needed a load of stitches and was out for a while. The Tyson fight had fallen through, and Tarver had gotten under Roy's skin. He'd crashed the Ruiz press conference and was in Roy's ear all way through 2003. Roy wanted a big money fight with Tyson and Lewis. When they didn't come off, he gave into Tarver and agreed to fight him at 175.

Roy vs Vitali wasn't viable at that time, and it wouldn't have been a huge mega fight like Tyson and Lewis.

I'm not living in any fantasy. He wasn't physically at his best for Tarver, and he still won. So I think a fight earlier, would have ended in the same result.

I don't think Ruiz was intimidated by him, and neither was Toney. As I say, you have your opinion, I have mine. I think Glen just caught him at the right time.

I don't rate Haye that highly at all. I think Valuev is absolutely garbage. A lot worse than Ruiz. I agree that the weight difference between Valuev and Haye, and Roy and Ruiz were probably about even. But what you're not taking into consideration is, Haye was a heavyweight. He was used to fighting big guys. Obviously not as big as Valuev, but he was used to facing big guys. Roy was a light heavy, and had never fought anyone over 13 stone. Also, Haye struggled with Valuev.

Once again, there's no such thing as feather fisted heavyweight to a former 168 fighter. Do you think Glenn Johnson had more power than Ruiz? I'm talking about from Roy's perspective.

Everytime you mention glass jaw, your post loses credibilty. What is it with you and Roy's jaw? He's been stopped 4 times towards the end of his career. So he's never had a great chin, so the **** what?

Good analysis on Roy vs Johnson earlier.

I just can't see how Glen would have beaten him Pre Ruiz though.

regards, Loudon.