Why are Ali and Leanard underrated in a ATG ranking sense?

Performance, proving themselves to be the actual best in a weight class by dominating it (something Walker didn't do) and less bad loses

 

Me too.

Although Leonard was a great fighter but i don't think he could have done that even if he wanted to.

 

Fascinating contests, I wouldn't write him out if he could stay injury free and not pick up too much damage. Nunn and Graham were technically flawed, he was so much quicker than McCallum although McCallum is a technical pressure fighter who may do what Hagler did but be a little smarter, he's much quicker than Kalambay too although I think Kalambay's jab and defence would be his greatest challenge

 

Graham probably would have found the way to lose

McCallum - tough to choose. Would Mike's pressure be enough to deal with Ray's speed?

Would't say Leonard was MUCH quicker than Kalambay - last time i saw Kalamabay he was petty fast.
Probably because he was fighting McCallum
Kalambay's defensive style very well may snatch the decision for him.

Nunn - very hard match-up for Leonard.

 

Leonard could have never beaten Kalambay and Nunn would have beaten him bad , possibly stopped him .
Hagler would have stopped him under standard conditions (gloves&ring) . Leonard fooled almost every1 with this fight he didn't win anyway .
edit : i forgot 2 mention that in addition 2 everything , Leonard even had his length of fight going in against Hagler (12 rds instead of 15)

 

Please explain ? I'm dying to hear you explain your reasons why.

 

he was a great fighter but Ray leonard gets OVERrated by many i think.

He never truly dominated any of the divisions he fought in. he rather retire and give up the titles than fight off a string of young challengers. i understand why - he needed "the big event" stage to get himself motivated or whatever.
i dont see him in the same category as Ali or Robinson or Armstrong or Louis or Benny Leonard or Greb etc.

 

I probably underrate the great man myself,but I would reluctantly place the brilliant,the magnificent,Shu-gah! Ray Leonard at a reasonable number one on my all time £4£ list.

Lads,I understand the criticisms: too articulate for a man of his colour,too intelligent for his chosen profession,ect - but you have to consider his accomplishments in the ring,such as: exposing Doo-ran in front of a worldwide audience; completely destroying the image of this ultra-macho,ring savage and sending him on a downward spiral.Also returning after a significant layoff and turning Hagler into an alcoholic,a coke addict, and a hermit,in what is generally considered one of sport's ATG comebacks....he must be the greatest!


As for Clay - he was a menace to society,had very few authentic wins over credible opposition,failed to serve the country that had been so good to him,didn't throw a shot to the body,didn't treat his opponents with enough respect,but.....his understanding and appreciation for the art of trolling was 2nd2nunn,and this must be considered when rating him on an all-time basis.On second review,maybe he really was "the greatest".

 

:good

 

Ali at 8/9, Leonard at 19-22.

 

Well, Kalambay and Nunn both good shots against prime Leonard but thinking one could stop him is pure fantasy.
I do agree that Ray lost the Hagler fight even though he got everything he wanted coming into the bout against the Marvelous one.

 

Considering how he had everything stacked against him,it's a wonder how poor Marvin even managed to make the fight as competitive as it was.Perhaps it was he who was really the greatest.

 

ray leonard had 40 pro fights in total, the last two of those being bad losses. its remarkable that he did enough to arguably make the top 20 of all time in so few fights. thats testimant to his greatness. i think top 10 of all time is too much of a stretch though. thats up against fighters who had at least 60 and more like 100+ or 200+ pro fights

 

And with no sort of extended run at the top of any division. It basically says Ray Leonard beat better fighters than just about anybody sans a few a exclusive who are more than equal and with much deeper pockets in the resume department.

Should've added Pryor and McCallum.