Why are Ali and Leanard underrated in a ATG ranking sense?

Frank, you still place him in the top 20 and you know it.

It doesn't matter if Kalule was hit with d billy club in both knees prior to the fight or Benitez came up with d meningitus on his walk to the ring. It doesn't matter if Leonard had Hagler's wife and kids tied up in d Brooklyn basement.

Leonard was Great.

 

yes. welterweight was his biggest run in a division. he actually lost the title in his 2nd defense, and then regained it and relinquishd after only 3 more defences.
and i dont think bruce finch, Dave Green or Larry bonds are much remembered.
So yes his greatness rests on the quality of his opposition. i think if he ranks at #20 all-time pound-for-pnd hes probly being rated fairly. others seem to be saying thats nowhere near high enough. not sure about that.

 

Certainly not remembered, although they were all rated fighters of the time period that he disposed of in impressive fashion as he was supposed to do. I go through frequent, various phases of how I view multiple fighters. I've had him as high as #8 and low as #25. It's sporadic, impulsive and inconsistent to say the least.

Leonard definitely flipped the script though. He completely abandoned the traditional championship title reign route and went about achieving greatness in his own way. Even if he hadn't suffered a detached retina, I seriously doubt he sticks around to mount multiple title defenses as undispited 147 king. He'd already proven his superiority in the division with wins over Hearns, Benitez and Duran. Leonard was all about the spotlight and the mega fight and it was on his terms. Nobody ran Leonard or told him what to do. He Hustles YOU, period.

And I have to admit, I kinda admire it in some ways considering countless fighters have been robbed blind and without even decent health to stand on in retirement. SRL was the sharpest knife in the drawer.

 

U made me recheck my p4p list and as far as my recent online update of it (and moreso in d offline) goes , I don't have Leonard inside my top 20 anymore . Leonard had less longevity than Marlon Starling and taking everything in2 consideration , his performance vs Hagler is much less impressing than Starling's vs Nunn . Starling didn't have his gloves , his ring vs Nunn , Starling wasn't d taller man vs Nunn and Starling wasn't d younger man vs Nunn . Leonard retired very young , came back still young , then retired young again , was given fits by n older former lightweight and stopped late a very drained welterweight , not b4 he waited 4 d older former lightweight 2 get out of shape and still needed 2 accommodate his style 2 beat him .
Leonard is overrated . He is not in my top 20 , and u can check d time/date in my latest edit of my list and c 4 yourself that I didn't edit it as part of my reply 2 your post here . In my offline version I placed Burley and Ross above him , and I think that others as well .

 

I love Starling as much as anyone Frank, but don't set him up for criticism by comparing him to Leonard.

 

Everything in my comparison between them was true , but it was only a partial comparison , Leonard did not have something 2 equate Molinares , which is 2 his favor , but then he might have had it , if he had Starling's longevity (which is not (that) much , but still more than Leonard's) .
I still rank Leonard above Starling , but d difference between them is smaller than what (almost every1) think it is .

 

Starling was a pro' for bang on ten years IIRC.

 

Leonard had less fights and (also) less stoppage wins than Starling , he only had more longevity if counting his retirements periods as activity periods which is not d most exact thing 2 do , even if not d wrongest either .

 

It's fashionable to rate Ali as the greatest heavy ever but have him way down the p4p ATG list. I don't see how this should be the case. From '62 through to '80 he fought and beat just about every top class contender it was possible to fight both as a contender himself or as champion and ducked no one. That's a period of 18 years with nearly 4 of those years in the middle being inactive.
I think there's hardly any fighter at any weight who can match that legacy and his resume. For me he'd always be a lock in the top 3 and it isn't outrageous at all to have him number 1.

 

There are other fighters that have incredible stats though.

 

To be fair with ali you have to consider the context behind his fights from after 76.

If you think if deservedly beat those men having him number 1 isn't a problem. I had him losing to kenny in the rubber match so for me he was champ from 64-67; 74-76.

 

Not just about...literally ever top contender

 

I think leonard's talent is underrated because of how he conducted himself with the retirements ect. Duran was his only prime loss and he avenged it. I think leonard is one of the most all round fighters ever. Ali is overrated by the man on the street but people on here seem right on the money.

 

leonard 11 seems a bit high