Why aren't all talented fighters....

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by jmashyaka, Jan 4, 2017.


  1. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

    7,436
    4,030
    May 7, 2016
    I've been noticing a trend with the EE fighters. The really talented ones with good/amazing amateur experience are now
    being fast tracked to world titles. There's quite a lot to name but the main two are Lomachenko and Usyk, then there are the likes of Dereyanchenko, Lipinets, Bivol, Gvozdyk, Beterbiev etc.

    My question is why aren't the other major boxing nations doing this? when you have a prospects like Errol Spence, Jo Jo Diaz, Oscar Valdez it's clear they don't need to be fighting opponents with more than 2 or 3 losses after their 12th fight. I personally think this EE way is the best way to bring along a talented prospects because it separates the real talents early rather than wait till the guy is 25-0 and then he loses on his first step up like an Amir imam or Liam smith.

    I know there are few exceptions especially in the UK who are starting to catch on with the likes of Joshua, Andrew Selby, Charlie Edwards, Quigley, Josh Taylor and Ohara Davies.
     
    DKD likes this.
  2. james5000

    james5000 2010's poster of the decade Full Member

    9,559
    3,677
    Apr 11, 2010
    Well most of the EE guys turn pro in their mid to late 20s, most other nations fighters turn pro in their teens or early 20s and are already champs while the EE guys are fighting kids for medals
     
    Pimp C likes this.
  3. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

    7,436
    4,030
    May 7, 2016
    Lol fair enough I can understand that arguement, where their is a trend building with the best fighters having a good amateur background isnt maybe time the US and UK catch on to this?
     
  4. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

    7,436
    4,030
    May 7, 2016
    The reason I bring this up is because I hate seeing a padded record of 25-0 like a Hugo centeno Jr or kell Brook when there isnt even 3 or 4 solid guys in their resume.
     
    DKD likes this.
  5. james5000

    james5000 2010's poster of the decade Full Member

    9,559
    3,677
    Apr 11, 2010
    Look what happens in MMA when you serve a short to none amateur apprenticeship and step up too quick, by the time you have 15 fights your a bum with 5 losses.

    In MMA nobody has time to develop because they are supposed to step up after a couple fights which leads to a bunch of talentless bums fighting each other. Atleast the EE guys have the ams experience which puts them in a good position to be fast tracked. MMA has f all amateur system
     
  6. Likely lad

    Likely lad Active Member banned Full Member

    737
    431
    Jan 2, 2017
    Bottom line is they are talented, very talented and want to be moved quick they don't need false record building, also the wsb gives them incredible experience before they turn pro.

    Sergei deverychenko had 27 wsb in a pro format against the elite amatuers of the world, why would he go back to fighting bums for two years? It would make no sense.

    Also talent, Terrell guasha and Jason Quigley are in the same gym, Quigley turned pro a year and a half after him and has moved past him in terms of career progression. Quigleys just more talented.
     
  7. james5000

    james5000 2010's poster of the decade Full Member

    9,559
    3,677
    Apr 11, 2010
    Not really look at loma getting beaten down by Salido. All the ams experience in the world couldn't help him then.

    You only need talent, dedication and a good coach and you will make it anyway.

    Turning pro early gives you a better chance of cementing a legacy I reckon
     
  8. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

    7,436
    4,030
    May 7, 2016
    I'm not an avid watched of MMA but considering MMA has several fighting disciplines ingrained I would think the old addage styles makes fight would be the main reason for loses. Someone who is more of a wrestler might beat a judo type whereas a judo guy might beat a boxer type and a boxer type might beat the wrestler type etc.
     
  9. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

    7,436
    4,030
    May 7, 2016
    I think Lomas team bit off more than they could chew with that one, but Salido didn't exactly win in a non controversial manned I must add even though he won and thats what matters. But like at how Loma took apart a way more professionaly experienced Gary Russell or Usyk did with Glowacki, if they unify or become undisputed in under 20 fights surely that overshadows a Crawford or Golovkin who took 30-40 fights to do it?
     
  10. james5000

    james5000 2010's poster of the decade Full Member

    9,559
    3,677
    Apr 11, 2010
    No most of them aren't used to being in difficult situations or getting punched in the face and just freeze up.

    Nothing to do with styles
     
  11. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

    7,436
    4,030
    May 7, 2016
    Im in agreement with you no point having these guys fighting bums at 23-0, it sets em up for failure when they suddenly step up. The US should be doing this with their top talents especially if they have a solid amateur background. Lubin, Davis, Stevenson, Haney, these kind of guys need to be steppes up quicker
     
  12. Likely lad

    Likely lad Active Member banned Full Member

    737
    431
    Jan 2, 2017
    I agree with you on lubin and Stevenson(who has wsb experience ). Haney no he had no senior amateur experience and wasn't even that special underage and same with Davis.

    Europe has seen the stupidity of these easy fights and now believe in there talent. They have looked at lomachenko and thought I was a top class amateur I want to be a world champion in ten fights too, and you have paddy Barnes saying he will be world champ in 5 fights and Michael common in 10

    Either the american guys don't believe in their talent or are still stuck using poor methods of developing fighters
     
  13. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

    7,436
    4,030
    May 7, 2016
    Nothing to do with styles? I highly doubt styles has nothing to do with it. But anyway the type of fighters am talking about do have good amateur pedigree e.g. Spence, Diaz, etc why does it take Spence 20 fights to fight an Algeri for me he could of beaten Algeri 4 fights ago maybe not as dominantely but he could of beaten him and by now he would have had a belt and be looking at unifications.
     
  14. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

    7,436
    4,030
    May 7, 2016
    I think they are stuck in there ways, Davis does have amateur experience maybe not World level like Loma but he went pro early the guy is only 22, Haney went pro at 17 these guys aren't like Usyk, Rigo, Loma who stuck around in to have 300 amateur fights.
     
  15. Likely lad

    Likely lad Active Member banned Full Member

    737
    431
    Jan 2, 2017
    No Davis doesn't even have high level international experience, mostly national level which in the USA isn't that high level at all

    Haney got beat a good few times underage and wasn't some awe inspiring amateur.him turning pro young was a bad move, he will be fed cans for 4 years and learn nothing, if he stayed amateur he would have thought better opposition