Why can GSP so easily takedown these great wrestlers?

Kos reached the absolute highest level possible in the world for Folkstyle, GSP has never had a single match.

 

Your point? We're not talking based on achievements, we're talking based on reality and what we've seen. GSP has trained with the best and it has shown in his MMA fights. He is clearly MUCH stronger and more athetic than someone like Hughes, and seems to have better technique as well, which is why he was able to outwrestle him. Nothing to do with "MMA wrestling" and other facotrs. There were no other factors in the clinch, GSP completely overpowered him and outclassed him.

Now, we are talking about Kos here and not Hughes, but GSP outwrestled and outmuscled him just as well. Yes, MMA wrestling has something to do with it, but people acting like GSP has no chance just because he doesn't have the wrestling credentials are the ignorant ones in my opinion. He has proved he clearly has the skills, which are a lot more substantial than what someone has done on paper when analyzing a potential match between two.

 

Yes, you don't train with the National Canadian Team and feel the desire to make the olympic team if you are not cut out for it. I am sure that, at the very least, GSP feels he can compete at that level or that would have never been said.

 

And therein lies the secret of GSP manhandling smaller wrestlers. He's fast, strong, technically gifted and BIGGER.

 

GSP doesn't have a single chance against Kos in a real wrestling match. If you believe otherwise... then you are the ignorant one my friend. We are talking about someone like Kos, who not only has probably wrestled over 500 matches in his life... but he has also reached the top level of the sport, as far as he wanted to go. Who knows if he could have done something along the lines of the Olympics... but what he do know is that he went 42-0 against the other best college wrestlers in the country, and won Nationals. So, we are talking about someone with hundreds of matches, who dominated at the TOP level... against someone who has not even competed in a single match. You have to be a bit touched in the head not to know the easy answer to that one. There is a big difference between being a good athlete and being good enough to implement takedowns in your game against good wrestlers based on the fear of your striking abilities, than there is in going into a straight up wrestling match for the first time in your life, against someone who is dominating in the sport at the top level.

Kos would flat out own GSP in a wrestling match. St. Pierre supposedly being "stronger" would have very little effect on anything.

 

Well unfortunately this isn't a wrestling match, and I would think that completely changing your striking stance which is what you need to set up your shots was a terrible idea.

 

GSP has evolved into a great great fighter. I always thought that a conditioned BJ could beat him..I dont think so anymore. At the same time..I see Machida destroy Sokoudjou.. BJ has been Machidas toughest opponent which in itself is incredible.

 

Hey Donut, do you post over at Sherdog's S&P?

 

Indeed, that is where I spend most of my work day

 

Yeah, I was just reading that Marunde article over there, then I was like, "Wait, that name looks familiar!" Not having the Fedor avatar threw me off though. I check that forum almost daily but have yet to post over there.

 

Yeah I've been keeping a log there for my powerlifting meet. The subforums over there are awesome, the Heavyweight forum sucks major ass though, lol.

 

Yeah, I've discovered that. I usually look through the S&P for tips, the OT for a couple laughs, and the War Room for my political fix. I just haven't gotten around to making an account yet. We need a S&P forum on Eastside.

 

Well, as you saw by my post, I was more referring to Hughes than Kos, but Kos isn't that far off either. Regardless of who Kos beat in college, GSP trains and wrestles with the Canadian Olympic team, which is pretty much just as good comp as the college guys Kos was facing and beating.

 

Alright, I've got to weigh in on this whole "Kos vs. GSP" wrestling match thing. I might be the only person who thinks Widdow is 100 percent right, and yes, I have some background in wrestling. (I also skipped page 3 and some of page 4, so maybe more people made this point already)

Anyway, there's a difference between MMA wrestling and amateur/collegiate/freestyle wrestling. Granted, they're similiar, and talent in one usually translates to some talent in the other. But, they're not the same.

GSP is an elite level MMA wrestler, and he would probably do very well in regular wrestling, considering his training. But to say he would be a great wrestler at this point is silly. He has great takedowns and stuffs, yes, but there are a ton of other moves used in wrestling that never find their way to MMA. Pinning a guy is a lot different than taking him down and getting in his guard.

I am almost positive that GSP isn't practicing these moves daily. Plus, the "down" positions in wrestling are nothing like the guard. You think GSP knows how to defend himself when on all fours?

In MMA, we tend to label anybody with good MMA wrestling and some wrestling background a good wrestler. Hughes and Rashard, as an example, are called good wrestlers. And yeah, they are. But Josh Koscheck is an elite level wrestler. He was 42-0 and NCAA champion, which is plain sick.

It's safe to say that Koscheck would terrorize GSP in a collegiate wrestling match, and I don't care if GSP trains with the 1996 version of Kurt Angle every day.

It's like saying having elite level MMA striking would make you a an elite boxer. Sure, it will help, and the skillset will translate somewhat. But boxers have to do and know so many more things with their hands since it's all they have. It's safe to say Anderson Silva and GSP would never be a boxing champion.

So, this argument is silly. GSP is an elite level MMA wrestler, and he probably uses wrestling in MMA better than Koscheck at this point. But if you put him in a match with ankle picks, corkscrews, and cradles, he'd easily get pinned.

 

Good arguments.

But GSP has beaten top notch wrestlers in their own game, which is why I was making the argument in the first place. Using GSP and Anderson as comparisons for their striking game is useless, as they have never beaten a top notch striker/boxer in MMA.

If any of them outboxed a good boxer, then yeah, I'd say they have a pretty decent shot at being a good boxer.