Why can GSP so easily takedown these great wrestlers?

Training with Olympians doesn't make you an Olympic level wrestler. It is practice, man. Good practice partners allow their partners to execute moves when they apply them correctly... it is part of being a good practice partner. So, if GSP gets a takedown on a guy in practice, it means nothing... because that is what you are supposed to allow your partner to do on occasion. Make him work for it, and if he does everything right, let him have it.

Hell, I trained with John Smith, 6 time World Champion wrestler, and took him down on several occasions. Am I on his level? Hell no. I executed a duck under on Mark Coleman, and rode him out for 1 minute... do you think that he was going 100% on me? Practice is practice, doing it in a real match is an entirely different animal. I have wrestled over 500 matches myself, wrestled since I was 6, and trained with the best wrestlers in the world... yet I am not on the Olympic level. I can assure you that I have trained with better wrestlers than GSP... and that is great practice. What it doesn't do is make you as good as they are, just because you practice with them. His takedowns aren't even that good for an actual wrestling match. They work very well in MMA, because there is very different positioning. However, he doesn't come at you in a proper way to get deep penetration that is needed to get in on someone in a good wrestling stance. He gets people out of position with his striking threat, and then snatches their legs as they are guarding the punches... that isn't wrestling. That is fighting.

You don't see the difference in trying to take down a wrestler, who is prepared for a wrestling takedown... rather than taking down someone who thinks that you are about to punch them in the face? GSP is GREAT at implementing his good wrestling into MMA fights, where he cam maximize his style of fighting. That is all that really matters. He doesn't have to worry about wrestling any of those guys straight up, because he is an MMA fighter. If GSP would have actually decided to try out for the Olympics, he would have been served a nice slice of humble pie. He doesn't need to though, because he is a Mixed Martial Arts fighter, and a great one.

 

Fair enough. I do want to comment on one point though. Training with the best doesn't always make you one of the best, true, but that's not to say it can't make you one of the best. If some schmuck with no physical ability were to train with them, then yeah, he would be nowhere near their level, but someone like GSP has proven himself to me. You are correct in saying that it doesn't always make you the best when you train with the best, but are you saying it isn't possible?

Either way, he may not be able to beat Kos in a wrestling match, but what about Hughes? He seems so much stronger, even when on the ground, when Hughes tries to get up, he just gets overpowered.

 

Did you wrestle at Oklahoma State?

 

Just conconcurring with the sentiment.....GSP would get owned by KOS in a wrestling match be it Greco, freestyle and especially folkstyle.

I have a little background in folkstyle. Traded takedowns in a match with a kid who's in the Ohio State Univ. Hall of fame (at the same weight I wrestled him in highschool) but I lost 4-3... But I did beat a dude who beat Mark Kerr... in highschool....

 

Why is everyone saying that GSP would get owned by Kos in traditional wrestling. Is it because Kos has a wrestling background and GSP doesn't?

The way I see it is this. If GSP dedicated himself to wrestling from early on he would probably be an olympic medalist. He showed he could take Kos down at will and keep him there. Ok, maybe Kos was worried about the striking therefor GSP was able to shoot easier....but what about being completely controlled while down there? You don't think with all that wrestling experience he couldn't at least made it competitive on the ground? He didn't. because GSP is faster, stronger, more athletice and has better instincts and reflexes. GSP just picked up wrestling that much faster. Be realistic. You have absolutely no basis for saying GSP couldn't also beat Kos and Hughes in wrestling because you've never seen him try. We have seen him throw them both around like ragdolls and dominate them on the ground though. For the skills and tools it takes to be a great wrestler......GSP has all of the stuff those two have, but much better.

 

not to mention kos went for a takedown...gSP stuffed it , then turned it around and threw Kos on his back....MMA or not that does mean something.It's his freakish strength and agility that is the difference...did you see how easily he threw Hughes down..it barely looked like he was trying.....and nobody has handled Hughes like that before.

 

When he did that it looked like he was giving a seminar, and demonstrating how to throw to the crowd. Hughes was helpless in there with him. So was Kos, So was Trigg and so was Sherk. Those are arguable the "4 best wrestlers" the UFC WW division has had, guys that use their wrestling to win. He didn't go back and forth and compete with them in the takedown and ground department, he did what he wanted and dominated them. I'm sorry, now some are telling me that if you throw a singlet and wrestling headgear on they would dominate him atsch It just doesn't make sense.

 

Its because they are all former wrestlers.

They love Kos and are in denial.. Bitter about St. Pierre being able to do everything Kos can do, BETTER..

 

I'm still stunned at the first takedown against Hughes. They were in a wrestling clinch, neutral position. GSP reached down and grabbed the back of Matt's knee and drove.....took him down almost effortlessly. Amazing, considering Matt's pedigree and history.

 

Well said, BewareofDawg, GSP utterly tooled Kos on the ground, sure MMA takedowns are slightly different from wrestling takedowns but once on the ground, GSP kept him down and humiliated him, passing his guard slapping him about putting him in a Kimura.

If that was a wrestling match, GSP would have had several pinfalls already.
Only reason GSP doesn't have the pedigree is because Canada just doesn't have wrestling built into the high school-college system like the States.

The fact that GSP has only been learning wrestling since the age of 19/20 and has tooled a few All American wrestlers and a AA wrestling champion is incredible.
He' so good that the Canadian national team said he couldachieve success at the Olympics! He's that good, only 26 and he just keeps getting better every fight.

He's already a legend in my eyes.

 

true enough, because some people wrestled that means they know everything and could easily tell that if GSP was on a wrestling mat he would be totally owned and lost...:roll:

 

My brother took down a Silver medalist at a camp at U of M on a bet. I'll have to look up his name, but he was pissed (he made a big deal and hundreds of wrestling camp kids witnessed it) and told my brother's coach he'd never been cleaned like that before even by the Russians. My brother had a slip under that was slick as hell and got behind the dude and lifted and cleared knees and thud. (Mike Milkovich also spoke of my brother in pretty glowing terms)

 

He is a great wrestler and all those years of practicing takedowns did not fully translate to MMA since in wrestling you get the take down from a tied up postions and in MMA you have to time it and set it up differently.

 

And the fact that when the great Amateur KOS shot on him, it was he who ended up on his back. When Hughes had his legs, he couldn't do **** all with it. What about when they are on the ground, surely experienced wrestlers should be able to at least create a scramble or two They couldn't do anything. So your telling me that in a straight up wrestling match it would be Hughes or Kos that take GSP down? Even though they have both been in good position to do so, meaning strong base and grip on GSP's legs and/or waist, and both of them got stuffed and put on the ground themselves even......why? You're wrong, GSP would take them down in a wrestling match and keep dominant position the entire match :deal