Why can GSP so easily takedown these great wrestlers?

In wrestling match youre bent over and standing much differenetly than you are in MMA and the groundwork is completely different.

Kos would murder GSP in a wrestling match period.

He was a 2 sport athlete and a national champion in an extremely competitive sport, how is he any less athletic than GSP? Just because he isn't as good of a fighter doesn't mean he isn't as athletic.

 

Also, what do you mean by saying that I am biased by being a wrestler? What does this prove for me? In case you haven't noticed, GSP is a wrestler as well, he just doesn't compete. So, it isn't like I am talking about some non-trained guy off of the street or something. GSP has been training in wrestling for years, and has gotten extremely good at it. I am sure that he can beat most middle of the road wrestlers based on his training, and his new found skills alone... however, he simply won't be able to compete against the top level of wrestlers out there. I am talking about other great athletes, who dominate OTHER great athletes, who have also wrestled for years and years, and are also at the top of their game. You are telling me that someone who hasn't experienced a single wrestling match before is going to come in and beat a guy like that? I would ask you to go to an NCAA Nationals tournament and watch those matches. Then imagine those guys, with all of their attacks, counters, set-ups, ect... refined over years and years of competing., practicing, training, and studying, in there against a guy who has never wrestled a match before.

 

Thank you... I don't get the "GSP is more athletic" angle either. GSP is simply a better MMA fighter.

 

The athletic comment was towards WM, from an earlier post he made. How anybody can say with certainty that Kos is more athletic then GSP is beyond me....and Kos would "murder" GSP is just as bad...I'm not saying GSP would win but he could easily hold his own and it would be a competitive match in the least. GSP told Kos before their fight he was going to out wrestle him.....and Kos laughed....OK he out mma wrestled him and kos was very humbled he did not expect to lose the fight at his game.

 

GSP has never even wrestled a match and you think he wouldn't lose big time to somebody who reached as high a level as is possible in folkstyle wrestling?

 

I'm 100% with WM and beebs on this. Everything has been said really, have nothing to add.

 

So the third round stuffed takedown was because kos was tired??? All the praise this guy has gotten about his athleticism and wrestling pedigree over the past few pages and being that this was the biggest fight of his life....wrestling or MMA and that he is still a gym rat and that he didn't even appear to be tired, and that he actually got GSP in the air and off his feet but somehow ended up on his ass with GSP standing over him......oh yeah, it must of been because he was tired, hell whatever is convenient for your argument. Stop putting "wrestling" on such a ****ing pedestal. Like was mentioned earlier, Pro basketball players go down to playgrounds and get ****ing schooled all the time. How in the world would that happen????? But don't worry Marbury, in REAL basketball that "guy with no college accolades" wouldn't stand a chance....BULL****! So you're telling me, that if Floyd mayweather takes up MMA he's gonna start getting outboxed?????? because he has to worry about takedowns???? No ****ing way, I don't care what you do to try and convince me of this. I train kickboxing, boxing and MMA...and I have minimal bJJ experience and that would NEVER happen!!! If FMJ trains in MMA as long as Kos has, there is absolutely no way he goes into a fight and gets outstruck by Lil' Evil, I dont' care how much he's worried about Jens's takedowns. It's the same thing, only for strikers and not wrestlers.

You guys are all being stubborn now about this. Why is it that GSP is stronger, GSP is quicker, GSP has better reflexes.....all that was apparant in their fight.....but he's not surely a better athlete. Kos didn't stuff one takedown, why??? Not even 1? He got a takedown on GSP in the 1st, but it was generated off a scramble and its a testament to GSP that he actually got to his feet and made it tough for Kos to do it from that position. You are now calling GSP a liar to benefit your position in this argument. You are calling his Olympic wrestling training partners liars to benefit your position in this argument. You are calling his wrestling coach a liar to benefit your position in this argument. He trains every aspect separate. He doesn't train with MMA guys, he trains with top tier guys from the 3 main areas of MMA independantly. Black belts in BJJ, Pro boxers and Olympic wrestlers. The Olympic wrestlers say he is more than competitive in STRAIGHT WRESTLING and he would have a good shot at a go for the olympics....he's that good. Hard to believe? Why?

 

lol, thats hilarious. Nah man, he's not gona get outboxed. But if he doesn't care about takedowns he won't even get to box. Once he starts to care about takedowns and leg kicks half his style goes out the window. He has to completely change the stance he's had his whole life. I'm sure he can adapt but thats not gona be that easy.

Listen, remember this, wrestling has COMPLETELY different dynamics. All you see is him getting stuffed on a take down. There's A LOT more to wrestling than just jumping in a shot from 4 feet away hoping to get a takedown. If Kos attempted a shot like that in wrestling he would been already losing. That shot wouldn't have worked on a good highschool wreslter. You keep thinking that thats all wrestling is about. You have no clue what setting up a shot is and how different it is from MMA set up. GSP is so good at MMA because he can transition between standup and ground so well.

And what is this crap you went on about "lairs." Do you seriously expect them to go ahead and say "nah man, he has no chance in wrestling?"

 

To be honest, you just sound very ignorant on the subject. I am trying to be as nice as possible, but you can't understand the most simple part of this discussion, because you really have no idea about real wrestling, and how big of a difference it is. You act like I am being biased because I know more about the subject that you. Why the hell would I be biased on this issue, anyways? I like GSP more than KOS, and they both train in wrestling. It isn't like I like KOS more because he wrestled in college, I am being honest about the situation and I know what I am talking about.

About calling people liars, I didn't call anyone a liar... I don't recall his training partners telling me anything. The UFC hypes up all of that stuff for him. Just like they hype up Rashad Evans as this great wrestler, when realistically he was 48-34. Do you know anyone in any sport who is great, and has a record like that? Rashad Evans is a middle of the road, average wrestler.

Also, you keep dancing around my question about Serra and GSP. Must be a little too much truth for you. If not, then you must believe that Serra is a better striker than GSP.

 

Ughh..........WHO CARES!

 

Also, stop talking about basketball. We are not talking about someone shooting a ball into a hoop. We are talking about a one on one physical contact sport. That has 100 times the complexity of a game of basketball.

 

Exactly. Kevin Randleman completely melted and then knocked Cro-cop out from a left hook on their feet. I guess that Randleman is a better striker than Mirko? To people with a solid grasp on reality, we know that Cro-Cop was too comfortable with his stand-up, and was too worried about Randleman's takedowns. He was completely unprepared for the striking from Kevin.

Floyd Mayweather wouldn't get outboxed by anyone in MMA. However, someone could out strike him, and someone could also have him so worried about takedowns that they catch him and drop him with a punch. That wouldn't make them a better boxer... that would make them a better fighter.

 

I wrestled in jr high and high school, and I started wrestling in P.A.L. long before that. You said GSP and his training partners only said that to promote the fight, hence they were not telling the truth, hence they lied. Deny that? I didn't think so. What does Serra and GSP have to do with it?? The striking side of MMA is more critical in ways then the Wrestling side....maybe you are ignorant on that? :think Meaning, a better wrestler makes a slight mistake or misjudgement they aren't going to be sent into an altered state of consciencessness, they will just be put in a disadvantaged position....but a superior wrestler and grappler would be able to recover. If a superior striker makes one mistake.....it could be lights out, not just a disadvataged position but put on , as they say "***** street" or stunned as was GSP :deal 9 times out of 10 GSP wins the standup exchanges with Serra....you CANNOT say that about Kos winning the takedown obviously.

Your problem is that you are ignoring the exceptions to every rule. There is absolutely no ****ing way that a guy with 1 year or less BJJ experience should be able to dominate black belts in Judo and BJJ that have been doing it their entire life right? NO! See BJ penn when he had a year experience, ask around, read up about him would ya...then come back and tell me all the reasons why a guy with 1 year experience would have NO CHANCE of throwing around and submitting guys "that could do it with their eyes closed.....blah blah blah" :good Oh but that could never be the case in wrestling right? Says the wrestler :deal Maybe you are overrating your wrestling experience over somebody elses natural talent and ability to adapt at an amazingly quick pace. :deal

A poster above said I didn't understand how setting up a takedown in MMA is different then in wrestling. Here's my answer. How do you know that GSP wouldn't be better at those techniques and setting up takedowns in that style also? Oh, thats right you don't!

I'll ask this again. If GSP is quicker and stronger and obviously picks up things and his body learns at an amazingly fast rate, why is it so out of the question that after at least 3 years of full time training in wrestling against the best wrestlers in Canada that he couldn't compete at an elite level in the sport???? atsch

All you guys have to base you argument on is "well believe me, you dont' understand, its different........" ok sure.

 

More complex? thats a matter of opinion and an arrogant one at that. I brought it up to show that pedigree, experience and coaching and competitive history isn't always a guaruntee of "Superiority". Sometimes somebody is just better.....in any sport or anything in life.

 

And what about your comment about Kos being 'tired' when he had GSPs leg and then had his body up in the air but ended up on his ass? I remember, I think it was you, that conditioning was a part of being a good fighter after Hughes beat Penn. But what now it doesn't matter? Although, it's pointless to argue because being "fatigued" had nothing to do with it, because Kos wasn't fatigued anymore than GSP was.