Why can't Haye work his way up and become a mandatory!?

I agree that shots in the HW division aren't often earned today because it simply isn't deep enough. However, I still would not get behind Haye getting a shot. This is due to the simple fact that his last performance was really, really poor and I'm pretty certain that a fight vs. Vitali would be more of the same: Haye's weakneses as a fighter were on display vs. Wladimir and he'd have many of the same problems vs Vitali: his inability to string combinations together, his unwillingness/inability to gain the inside position and hit the body and his vulnerability against a much bigger opponent that caused him to get discouraged after getting hit with a couple of powershots clean. For me to get behind a Haye vs. Vitali fight, I'd have to see Haye deliver something against a decent opponent from the top 10 - without all the bs. and without ppv.

 

No, it's the opposite of common sense really. Common sense is when someone is giving you exactly what you want then you take it. Someone giving you exactly what you want, but then choosing to work twice as hard to get it is not.

Common sense would be Haye taking a fight with Vitali because he is being offered it. Declining the fight, fighting a couple of other people and then fighting Vitali for the same terms is not.

I personally think that dislike for some fighters really distorts people's opinions, with Haye being one of them.

I just don't get your post to be honest. You talk about Haye 'demanding' a fight - what can he really demand? He's in absolutely no position to make demands. He simply says he'd only fight Vitali or else he stays retired. Vitali is the one who calls him out, Vitali is the one offering a contract - Vitali is the sole person in complete control of deciding whether or not the fight happens.

You imply that Haye has not put in hard work - I would say he has put in as much hard work, if not more than any other heavyweight not named Klitschko. There's no doubt he worked hard in the amatuers and at cruiserweight, you don't achieve anything without hard work.

At heavyweight he comes into the ring in better shape than 99.9% of the division, so he obviously cuts no corners and works hard. The difference between him and the majority of the division, and the reason he made the money he did is that when his training was done he wasn't finished working. He'd train in the day, then he'd be out filming TV shows, recording radio shows and making guest appearances in the evening -all so he could maximise his returns for his hard work. In my eyes, that is pretty hard work - he was out doing this and still turning up in top shape and never lost until he met the top fighter in the division.

 

Again I agree with some of what you say... And yes common sense in a world gone mad is exactly what you are implying.. doesn't make it right nor does it bring respect and for me is all what is wrong with the world today.

The main point i can't agree on is you claim that he has worked harder than any other hw not called klit:nut 5 fights at heavyweight does not constitute hard work for me.. An for the record, haye is a natural cruiser weight, he is naturally a lean lad.. Contrary to your opinion, haye is supposed to hate aerobic workouts, doesn't like to spar much and therefore limits his stamina. He prefers to sculpt his body not condition it to fight hard for a full 12 round war.. His stamina issues of the past and dare I say present are testament to the fact that he doesn't work hard enough and is not fit enough. It took me a long time to start hating on David Haye cos i generally as a brit wanted him to do well. It just didn't take me long to realise he has no class nor the desire for hard work, preferring the easy route to the big money rather than trying to achieve all time great status.

 

You talk alot and still it can be summed up to this, Vitali has to be blamed because he offered the contract. Haye did demand a lot vs. Wlad, and he will do it again, he is in for the big and quick money that's all.
A lot of fighters work as hard as him, but cannot generate the big pot because Haye has had the advantage of being a CW champ and it was his loudmouth that got him people talk about him.
If he wanted to grab Vitali's belt then he would make ata least one fight against a top ten fighter and get into a better position as he did for Wlad, but he is too lazy and the next opponent could be a dangerous one. Saying he would only come back for Vitali is not an honest and open statement, he doesn't want to risk a loss before he can face Vitali that's all.
You dislike the Klitschkos and like Haye, good for you, but don't act as if you are not biased. Oh and stop crying in all Klitschko threads :hi:

 

Saku. You're an idiot. If Vitali offered Haye a fight then why would he choose to fight someone else first?

 

Because you don't understand how it works, Vitali has never said he would fight him at any cost, has he? Remember when Haye agreed to a fight and fought Valuev instead?

 

Maybe because Haye is the former WBA, WBO, WBC undisputed Ring Magazine Cruierserweight champion. And The former WBA Heavyweight champion.

AND!!! Vitali has just faught Chisora who had just lost a fight at European level, and at UK domestic level before that.

Maybe Haye doesn't think he needs to be a mandatory challenger when Vitali is fighting the likes of Derek Chisora!!!! And who can blame him??

The biggest name out there right now for Vitali to fight is David Haye. And he hasn't faught him. So why not??

 

Yep but this is past, maybe Vit did offer him the fight, nothing official and it is now obvious vit and his management are not thinking the same.. So with this in mind wouldn't it be better that David took control of his future and made sure he got the fight he so wants and therefore achieved his full potential through hard work and dedication? Isn't this the attitude that all young fighters should aspire to or is the tide turning?

By your logic David should be able to take the easy route because he has been able to up until now and he just can, always seeking maximum for minimum. Sorry but this attitude, whilst becoming more prevalent within the sporting world is not something that is admired and never will be. And looking back through this thread is testament to the fact that most people think David should have to prove himself before asking us all to put our hand in our pockets again to watch him ***** out. Then there is the odd poster stating David haye and his hype is all that is needed to gain the opportunity of becoming the HW champ.

Even lennox and other ex champs have gone on record stating David should do it the right way and then challenge again.. Maybe Saku is not such an idiot after all and there is some truth in David not being so confident or is just too lazy..

If every fighter adopted the attitude of David Haye then the boxing world would be full of narcissistic wankers who take more than they give. Not very fan friendly is it?

 

in a perfect world fights would happen because people want to see them. that's the goal of boxing...it's a spectator sport.

the systems you are talking about are there to ensure the best fight the best not to put up roadblocks so you don't get to see the fights that people want for a year or 2

david haye is proven. he is a 2 weight world champion. the only guy who has beaten him at hw is the guy who is the very best at the weight. there is nothing wrong with this fight on a sporting level despite what you are saying.

how about carl froch ****s off & beats a load of lower ranked contenders at 168 before he gets to fight lucian bute? works his way up & becomes a mandatory? would that be fair? or should we just make froch/bute right now cos it's a big fight that people want to see?

:huh

 

Sums it up

 

He has also been inactive and is now retired. He is a proven cruiser but not at heavyweight for me and just cos wlad beat him doesn't mean he wouldn't be beaten by anybody else in the division..

Also, I may have a pic of froch as my avatar, this doesn't mean I have some deluded notion that he is anything other than what he is.. Also i don't think froch is the best fighter to highlight in order to champion the attitude of David Haye. There is a world of difference between froch and his attitude/achievements within boxing than how haye conducts himself. Froch hasn't just lost a fight where he behaved like a ***** blaming a sore pinky for his short comings. Yep froch is delusional if he thinks it was a close fight with ward but at least he is not retiring, stating that the only fight for him would be a ward rematch.. Froch is not a ***** and doesn't rely on such tactics to get the fights he deserves. If he gets the fight with bute it is because he has been offered it and since a retired David haye has not been officially offered anything by K2, maybe it would be wise for him to make his goal a reality.

 

As far as I'm concerned Haye is in it for £'s only. If he gets the Vitali fight - its a gift he doesnt deserve. Sure he's the best of a bad bunch so it isnt a bad fight, but i'm sure a lot of his fans (i count myself as one that is disapointed in him) see it all as cheap BS talk now. He talked so much then offered so little in the Wlad fight. Never mind the toe. That doesnt wash with most fans. He talked big then fought scared. I dont see him fighting brave against Vitali. I see the same running chicken trying to cash in and then retire again. His hearts not in boxing for anything else but £'s. Sadly I do want to see him KO Chisora. Which if Vitali doesnt gift him the shot he wants he might have no choice if he wants to earn again. Or he stays retired. But methinks he'll take Chisora for a 'warm up' fight..then once he's KO'd Chisora his big mouth will start boasting how much better he did than Vitali.

 

he's had more world title fights at hw than cw.

everything else you said has **** all to do with anything. it's your personal opinions on the differences between the 2...which shouldn't count for anything given how you're on about "proving" you "deserve" fights. that has **** all to do with your perceptions of their attitude...especially if your whole argument is based on a notion of sporting merit.

froch has lost 2 out of his last 4...without a gift against dirrell it would have been 3 losses out of his last 5. all he's done is beat a 40+ guy coming off a loss & a blown-up mw unable to hang at 168 in the middle of a losing streak. he's coming off a bad decisive loss in his last fight.

does he deserve a bute fight? not really. should he be forced to fight his way up & become a mando? what do you think?

imo...**** it...no. make the ****ing fight. he's a former world champ. he's been ijn title fights before. it's a fight i want to see...that's enough to get the fight made imo. just like haye/vtali.

 

speaks volumes..

ffs things must be desperate when froch is being used to legitimise your argument. Or is it just that my avatar is what it is? Froch has lost a few now yes and I wouldn't have any complaints if he wasn't offered the bute fight. Be good to see it though and like I said before froch is a warrior and is active, whereas haye is neither.

For the record I didn't say froch deserved anything just that he has been obviously offered something from team bute whereas David hasn't and is retired..

The TS asked why can't haye work his way up to mandatory? An still I haven't heard any real reason why he shouldn't employ this tactic now it is has been pointed out that K2 want no part of him yet.

Yes I want to see the fight like anybody else and if David is a good as he thinks he is then he shouldn't have a problem giving us a warm up bout or two.

So as a fan wouldn't you prefer to see haye fight a couple first before vit? Or is this irrelevant too?

 

lmfao.what other fighter is more worthy??seriously the division is ****