Why come Liston didn't get a title shot against Frazier in the late 60s

Someone made a thread about Tyson against top 10 HWs in 1965. And Amos Lincoln was ranked 7.

 

It was me, Sorry.

 

The point was that it shows Amos Lincoln was a ranked guy.

 

Not when he fought Liston. Hed won just one of his last five fights and been stopped in three of those. And, as the previous article I posted stated, Liston handpicked Lincoln, his former sparring partner to be his opponent in that fight.

 

This whole bit of Liston being scared is a bit much .. he was old and disgraced post Ali 2. His aura destroyed ... he was likely north of 35 at the time and whatever passed as management for him at that point went about slowly building him back in a manner that has been done with damaged, old but still marketable commodities through out boxing history, the path of least resistance .. I'm sure he had his opinions about what match ups made sense and what didn't but also keep in mind Liston was in the last stage of his life and career and that circled around the Vegas underbelly .. crime, heavy drinking, returning to being an enforcer and likely dealing drugs, very late nights, lots of partying ... remember , this was a guy that didn't mind life in prison as a young man and experienced it was a step up .. he was the spawn of the Great Migration, the ugly step child .. uneducated, illiterate, a life long street thug and he scummed out a living in the manner he was versed in.

 

Don't really understand this post. The claim has been be made that he was avoided, and I was along with that myself, but Klompton posted sources that showed that he could have faced not only Quarry but also Ellis, for the WBA title nonetheless. I don't understand what you write has to do with this whatsoever.

 

Yes, the reasoning not to face Ellis in Miami certainly doesn't sound like someone who's keen on a title shot.

 

If he accepted the offer to face Ellis in Miami and won but then was denied a unification by Frazier, then he'd have a clear case for having been avoided. But as it is, I don't see that case.

 

I

I didn't write he was avoided at all. Clearly there were fighters that felt at his age and stage he was a mark, an easy scalp . I wrote that I didn't think he was scared either but likely pragmatic and knew his limitations.. I wrote that he was just making a buck along the way and open to some fights and not others based on the risk/reward factor, the money and the cast of characters. I've read mixed things about the possible Quarry and Ellis match ups and believe both fighters were equally scared of no one and would have fought Sonny if it was made.

 

You might not have claimed Liston was avoided, but others certainly have (i thought so too btw) and Klompton adressed that and provided sources. That you seemed to have a problem with and I don't understand why. That Liston was old and had had a hard life has nothing to do with if he was avoided or not.

Klompton raised the discussion significantly by clearly showing that there were big fights, even a title fight, that Liston could have accepted. I don't see the problem with this. And I was among those being proved wrong.

 

One thing to bear in mind about Liston's supposed refusal to box in South Florida: there's no record of Liston himself having said that. It was Angelo Dundee who said it, in defence of his own highly dubious claim that there had been no promotional interest in an Ellis-Liston fight.

https://ibb.co/wCN9CXQ

As for Chris Dundee's offer to Liston, he certainly told the press that he was planning on making the fight, but never gave any details of an offer, and Liston's manager Dick Sadler denied having received one. It was theorised at the time that it was pure spin, designed to help out with the marketing of Liston's upcoming fight with Billy Joiner.

https://ibb.co/JqhChPk
https://ibb.co/x1jkfhY

 

The Earth is flat and Liston deserved a shot at that title.

 

I am not arguing the point. You seem to have a problem comprehending that .

 

No.

 

Fair points and good input.