Why Couldn't Patterson Get Beyond Round One With Liston?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by djanders, Apr 19, 2021.

  1. djanders

    djanders Well-Known Member Full Member

    Feb 21, 2009
    To be honest, I wasn't shocked by the first fight, mildly surprised but not shocked. I had bet on Liston to win, and also put a bet down that he would do so by the 5th round. Obviously, I won both bets. While I didn't expect Floyd to win the second fight, I thought he wouldn't go out in the first round again.

    Between styles and abilities, was Sonny THAT much better than Floyd that Floyd couldn't find a way to get through the first few rounds? I know he was probably afraid of Sonny, but other fighters have faced that fear and made it into later rounds. What do you guys think? If they had fought a third time, another 1st round knockout?
  2. Stiches Yarn

    Stiches Yarn Member Full Member

    Jan 2, 2021
    Liston was the worst matchup for Patterson. Floyd lacked almost every tools he needed to get beyond round one with sonny. Dude was terrified, too chinny and too small. Even if he did overcome his fear, he would still get slaughtered due to the style make fights thing, he would have had to move inside to get in range to hit Sonny. Sonny, with the hardest left jab in history, would have used it as Foreman did against Frazier, to keep Pat outside, and beat him up with hooks, crosses, and uppercuts. His incredible reach and pure brutal power would be too much to overcome. Floyd could not get in range without the incredible power of Liston hitting him. Floyd could slip and duck - but all Liston needed was one clean shot.
  3. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Feb 15, 2006
  4. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Jul 30, 2014
    I agree. Had he tried to run or box him as he did Chuvalo, I'm sure he would've performed much better (if he wasn't as terrified of course).
  5. Saintpat

    Saintpat Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Jun 26, 2009
    This is one where I think if they fought 10 times, Sonny would KO him in one round 10 times.

    If they fought 100 times, Sonny would KO him in one 100 times.
  6. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Jul 30, 2014
    meh I don't think anyone beats anyone 100 times at the top level but I get your point.
  7. KasimirKid

    KasimirKid Active Member Full Member

    Jun 1, 2018
    Prior to the first Liston bout, Floyd had been highly criticized for ducking his top challengers Machen, Folley, and particularly Liston. He had broken free from the protective arms of Cus D'Amato and felt that he had to prove himself to the world by meeting Liston head on, which was absolutely the worst strategy he could have chosen. Patterson was a natural brooder after a loss so mentally he was red meat for Liston in the second fight, especially since Sonny did nothing in the first fight to dispel the notion many had that he was the greatest thing in the heavyweight division since the invention of the electric light bulb.

    I think if he had given himself time to mature a bit and recover his self-esteem rather than meeting Sonny right away in a rematch, he might have been able to last more than a round even against the best Liston. Also, Clay/Ali's victories over Liston would have served to alleviate some of the fear which caused him to freeze up against Sonny. He often said that his main reason for continuing to fight after he lost the title was to earn another shot at Liston. For quite a while, it was more important than fighting Ali. I would like to have seen a Patterson-Liston fight in 1967-'68! By then, Sonny had lost his lofty status as a demi-god and been beamed back down to the human race.
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
  8. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Jul 30, 2014
    Excellent post. Liston was said to be in terrible condition in the second fight, and if Patterson wasn't "red meat" as you stated theirs's a chance he could've exploited it.
    Richard M Murrieta and djanders like this.
  9. Indefatigable

    Indefatigable Member banned Full Member

    Mar 6, 2021
  10. Indefatigable

    Indefatigable Member banned Full Member

    Mar 6, 2021
    No way. It wasn't just his fear but Sonny's ferocious fury. He never gets out of round 1. Tyson wouldn't make it out of 3.
  11. thanosone

    thanosone Love Your Brother Man Full Member

    Sep 23, 2007
    Because he tried to fight Sonny Liston.
  12. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze No Fairy Tales• Full Member

    Oct 12, 2020
    Floyd was caught it happens, A man like Patterson was prideful and picked his hill to die on he wanted a shootout. In all likelihood Floyd knew he would lose he refused to let anyone but him pick when. So he charged Sonny in hopes of an early blitz a valiant gesture of the champ he had fight in his eyes till it was over in both showings.
  13. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

    Aug 15, 2018
    Hard to imagine a top fighter like Patterson getting sparked three times in a row in round 1. But who knows. Liston certainly owned space in Patterson’s head.
    choklab, djanders, KasimirKid and 3 others like this.
  14. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jan 3, 2007
    I know he didn’t last long in either fight. But it appeared to me he actually seemed to have a little more success in the first bout with his weaving and head movement. In the rematch he was a sitting duck. I felt sorry for him when he went down the second time. Even with the poor film quality you could see the defeat in his face
  15. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Jul 30, 2014
    I agree he had more success the first time around. His defense was on point as you stated. He had Liston missing a fair amount of punches and actually landed a few good shots.

    "In the fight's first exchange, Patterson slipped under Liston's jab and threw a strong left hook past Sonny's ear. The force of the blow impressed Liston, as he admitted later, and he danced lightly back with far more grace than had been expected of him."
    mr. magoo, djanders and KasimirKid like this.