Why Couldn't Patterson Get Beyond Round One With Liston?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by djanders, Apr 19, 2021.

  1. Pat M

    Pat M Active Member Full Member

    1,020
    2,151
    Jun 20, 2017
    I don't think Patterson was afraid of Liston either. I think he just got caught. Patterson was a small heavyweight, not physically strong, and things just went wrong for him. I've never thought Michael Spinks was scared either, he was fighting all right until he got caught. Patterson and Spinks were Olympic champions, they had seen a lot of fighters, can't imagine that either of them would be scared to the point of it affecting their performance by any opponent.

    With their amateur and professional background, they'd both probably sparred/fought fighters who were considered "monsters" when they were young, they probably got through those sessions, did well, built their confidence, and continued their careers. Long time fighters who start young usually experience a lot of things as they mature, being scared of opponents is something I've never seen from a fighter. In fact I've seen the opposite, if everyone thinks the opponent is a "monster", the fighter has no pressure and wants to prove people wrong.

    It's hard to believe that a fighter could win the Olympics, then the heavyweight championship and then fold because some opponent "mean mugs" him.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
  2. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,518
    8,439
    Jul 16, 2019
    So very true my friend, the bravery in Floyd Patterson was always evident in his title fights and beyond. But Sonny Liston was so intimidating to Floyd.
     
    swagdelfadeel and djanders like this.
  3. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,518
    8,439
    Jul 16, 2019
    I thimk that the Floyd Patterson vs Sonny Liston title bout was a very anticipated fight for it's era in 1962. When President Kennedy invited Floyd to the White House, he told him that he better beat Liston. And remember the President's brother, Robert, was the U. S. Attorney General, who by the way was deporting underworld figures left and right. Sonny was involved with people like Frankie Carbo and Blinky Palermo. Being told to beat Liston by one of the most powerful individuals in the world is a very tough thing. Not to mention, Cus D Amato did not want Floyd to fight Sonny.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  4. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    56,261
    17,509
    Nov 24, 2005
    His defence was leaky and his chin wasn't great.
    Liston had the perfect style and weaponry to pierce that defence.
     
    Richard M Murrieta and djanders like this.
  5. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    56,261
    17,509
    Nov 24, 2005
    Patterson was a top quality fighter but Liston was better, bigger and the worst possible style for Patterson.
     
  6. Stiches Yarn

    Stiches Yarn Active Member Full Member

    651
    883
    Jan 2, 2021
    Nononononono.......Spinks was absolutely scared, which completely ruined the plan he made with Eddie Futch. Eddie wanted spinks to circle outside and jab Tyson with his 5 inch reach advantage, and when Tyson rushed forward, hit him with the Spinks jinx, his lethal right hand. Survive the early rounds until Mike tired.
    But michael was so terrified he threw the plan out of the window, decided to exchange with tyson...and he got crushed.
     
    Richard M Murrieta and djanders like this.
  7. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    56,261
    17,509
    Nov 24, 2005
    The reason people think Spinks was scared of Tyson is because he came across as a man who didn't believe he could win against Tyson in just about every interview for about 18 months leading up to that fight.

    Maybe Spinks was like that anyway, but it was blindingly obvious that Tyson represented the type of fighter Butch Lewis normally would have had no intention whatsoever of putting him in the ring with, and it was only when the money on the table became ridiculous that the fight was made.
     
    Richard M Murrieta and djanders like this.
  8. Stiches Yarn

    Stiches Yarn Active Member Full Member

    651
    883
    Jan 2, 2021
    He WAS afraid.
     
  9. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    56,261
    17,509
    Nov 24, 2005
    I suspect he was.
    Because he didn't believe he could win.
    Which means he knew in the back of his mind that Tyson would likely destroy him.
    And Michael Spinks was a great fighter, a winner, so going into fights with that stuff in his mind must have been unusually scary.
     
    djanders and Richard M Murrieta like this.
  10. Stiches Yarn

    Stiches Yarn Active Member Full Member

    651
    883
    Jan 2, 2021
    Making someone believe he would lose and, likely, get destroyed in the fight is called intimidation, no?
    Yes, spinks is a great fighter, a truly great fighter as an amateur and as a professional, and should be remembered as the Hall of Fame boxer he is, but he was Terrified, that's why he he didn't believe he could win, that's why he thought tyson would crush hum, because he was intimidated, he was terrified, because he was AFRAID.
     
    djanders likes this.
  11. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    56,261
    17,509
    Nov 24, 2005
    He was terrified because he knew he couldn't win and he knew he'd get KO'd, yes.
     
    djanders likes this.
  12. Bah Lance

    Bah Lance Active Member Full Member

    697
    748
    Apr 29, 2019
    For a forum obsessed with size it's funny nobody mentioned Liston was a power puncher with over a 20 lb weight advantage. One would hope he could knockout a man that much smaller with no physical advantages.
     
    djanders likes this.
  13. Saad54

    Saad54 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,841
    4,893
    Dec 10, 2014
    Lack of size. Lack of a granite chin
    Lack of lateral movement. Lack of elite defense
     
    djanders and Bokaj like this.
  14. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,844
    1,446
    Dec 16, 2012
    No, as many people are telling you, Patterson-& Spinks-were afraid.
    Spinks has admitted '"Fear was knocking at my door Big Time".

    Patterson was ironically brave in *fighting* his fear. That is why he seemed a bit obsessed with getting a third bout with Liston.
    But he ha well known confidence issues.

    It is also well established that it is routine for a boxer to feel *some* fear, which can just be of losing too.
    Usually it does not impact performance, & they can sometimes use it well to sharpen their senses & hone their motivation.

    While it is wrong, overstated by a lot that nobody lost to Tyson who was not intimated by him, *some* like Seldon-who stayed down not to throw the bout exactly but out of terror-did less well than they would have-even though all likely would have lost-due to fear.

    If you have never seen fear from an opponent, it is something basic that you have misse.
    Professionals being GOOD at managing fear as a group does not mean all do it perfectly. They are human.

    Just like NBA players are very good, compared to the general population, at not letting pressure get to them.
    But even in something so simple as an uncontested foul shot, the average is at least a little lower league wie than it would be if nothing was on the line, & many fans were not waving things in the background to distract them.
     
    djanders likes this.
  15. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    25,452
    4,913
    Dec 31, 2009
    I think psychologically, the roller coaster Floyd went through beating Ingo two out of three times in back to back fights took its toll. I know Floyd beat mcneely in a set up wedged between the Liston fights and the last Ingo bout but the reality was Floyd was a guy who wrote a book called “victory over myself”. He was a deeply thoughtful and sensitive guy. A lot of mental baggage.

    People forget what a big deal it was for a heavyweight to regain the title. Nobody had done it before. Seems like nothing now. Yet Floyd did it once. He was the first. and the pressure was on Patterson to do it again.

    The pressures floyd put himself under created a difficult tightrope. It worked for the Ingo series but as it turned out, when it came to high profile fights after this, although he was by no means shot as a fighter, temperamentally for big fights, Floyd was psychologically spent.

    In title fights Floyd never performed against Ali and he never performed against Liston. The big occasion got to him by then. Mentally he checked out after Ingo.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
    djanders and Entaowed like this.