Why Did Cooper Do Better Than Liston?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fergy, Sep 20, 2020.


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  1. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Obviously I'm talking about their fights with Clay /Ali.
    Henry, I'm pretty sure hardly lost a round against Ali, plus of course, dropped him with his mighty left.
    Yet liston, the heavyweight champ, never really came close as such to even dropping him.
    Question of different styles?
    Ali taking Enery lightly - Liston taking Ali lightly?
    Cooper training like a madman /Liston hardly taking the fight seriously?
     
    Fergy, Sep 20, 2020
    Fergy, Sep 20, 2020
    #1
  2. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    Ali was in bad condition in his first bout with Cooper and got caught trying to talk to Liz Taylor who was at ringside, Cooper didn`t that much in the rematch but threw more hooks than Liston did, Ali was caught by a lot of hooks in his career, Cooper`s hands were quick enough to catch Ali also.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
    mark ant, Sep 20, 2020
    mark ant, Sep 20, 2020
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  3. JackSilver

    JackSilver Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Cooper had the style to always give Ali trouble.
     
    JackSilver, Sep 20, 2020
    JackSilver, Sep 20, 2020
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  4. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    He was up in Ali's face right from the start, I know that. By the end of the first round, Ali's nose was bleeding. Copper also said he was the fittest he'd ever been, or near enough and light enough to compete against Muhammed.
     
    Fergy, Sep 20, 2020
    Fergy, Sep 20, 2020
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  5. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Ali was in bad condition for his first time with Cooper?
    Wasn't aware of that mark tbh.
    I know Liz Taylor and Burton were in the audience, they could hear him shouting *Get him Henry '.
     
    Fergy, Sep 20, 2020
    Fergy, Sep 20, 2020
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  6. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    Yes Cooper sasid li came in lighter for the rematch and had done his homework, he said Ali`s footwork was far better in their rematch.
     
    mark ant, Sep 20, 2020
    mark ant, Sep 20, 2020
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  7. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    The above plus Liston was old, inactive and over confident ..
     
    he grant, Sep 20, 2020
    he grant, Sep 20, 2020
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  8. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Bad condition ? Never read that ..
     
    he grant, Sep 20, 2020
    he grant, Sep 20, 2020
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  9. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    Ali used more feints in their rematch but Cooper`s lead hand ws always a threat.
     
    mark ant, Sep 20, 2020
    mark ant, Sep 20, 2020
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  10. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    More of the old and over confident as well as Henry knowing he had a tough oppenent so he came ready for him.
     
    Fergy, Sep 20, 2020
    Fergy, Sep 20, 2020
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  11. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    Liston`s punches were slower than Cooper`s and he get less counter hooks off, but his head movement was better than Cooper`s, he was more wary of being caught than Cooper was, Liston also posted with his lead hand instead of trippling up his jab and following up with hooks the way Cooper did v Ali.
     
    mark ant, Sep 20, 2020
    mark ant, Sep 20, 2020
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  12. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Yes, there was no way that Ali was coming in, not prepared for the rematch. Cooper was also facing near enough peak Muhammed here imo. Look at what he did to Cleveland and London. Amazing that he never had Enery down once!.
     
    Fergy, Sep 20, 2020
    Fergy, Sep 20, 2020
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  13. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    I read that in a book about puunchers by Reg Gutteridge, I was quoting Cooper who noted Ali was far lighter on his feet in their rematch and took the fight more serious, he was also champ by then, where as when he first fought Cooper he was just a leading contender.
     
    mark ant, Sep 20, 2020
    mark ant, Sep 20, 2020
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  14. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    The punches he caught Cooper with were fast but lacked power, Ali would get in with 2`s and 3`s and then get away instantly after punching, he wasn`t sitting down on his shots and he wsn`t catching Cooper consistently, just there and there, Cooper`s hand speed bothered Ali, probably due to Henry being so muuch slimmer than Liston, he had a light heavies speed, his hooks were very short and quick.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
    mark ant, Sep 20, 2020
    mark ant, Sep 20, 2020
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  15. CharlesBurley

    CharlesBurley Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Several factors:

    1. Ali was open to left hooks on the backfoot, Henry's money punch
    2. Ali was fighting down to the opposition in their first fight and predicting the round, meaning he couldn't turn up the pace earlier
    3. Cooper was faster than Liston
    4. Cooper was fighting at a much higher pace because he was cut and knew he needed a KO in the next few rounds to win.
     
    CharlesBurley, Sep 20, 2020
    CharlesBurley, Sep 20, 2020
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