Why Did Cooper Do Better Than Liston?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fergy, Sep 20, 2020.



  1. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    36,654
    16,430
    May 4, 2017
    London admitted that he didn`t even try v Ali, but Williams was bigger than Cooper and very powerful, Cooper had faster hands but H2H he would have had trouble with Williams.
     
  2. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    36,654
    16,430
    May 4, 2017
    Maybe, The whole Ali circus was all smoke and mirrors but still the greatest show on earth.
     
    Cecil likes this.
  3. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    36,654
    16,430
    May 4, 2017
    Liston`s hook wasn`t as fast but it was more powerful. All the KO`s on this vid are from Liston`s right and left hooks:
    This content is protected
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
  4. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    36,654
    16,430
    May 4, 2017
    Liston was more powerful than Cooper and far harder for other fighters to beat but he lacked the hand speed that Cooper had to trouble Ali, he had also put on weight, in his leaner prime his hands were quicker.
     
    Johnny_B likes this.
  5. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

    25,057
    28,692
    Jan 8, 2017
    London was definitely, Cooper proved he was his boss in the ring. Williams is a little harder imo, at least he had a hefty wallop.
     
  6. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    26,337
    10,009
    Jan 4, 2008
    You're pretty sure Henry didn’t lose a round over his two fights with Ali?
     
    mark ant likes this.
  7. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,997
    4,983
    Mar 22, 2015
    I think Williams would have KO'd Cooper.
     
    sasto and mark ant like this.
  8. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

    25,057
    28,692
    Jan 8, 2017
    Not many, wasn't he slightly in front at the end?
     
    choklab likes this.
  9. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

    25,057
    28,692
    Jan 8, 2017
    I think he probably would, Cooper would have gone for it but end up on the losing side imo.
     
  10. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,511
    7,386
    Dec 31, 2009
    I think it’s only 50-50. Yes Henry was knocked cold by Patterson, Ingo and Folley but so too Cleveland Williams might well have done.

    We saw how Williams crumbled against Ali without making an impression whereas Cooper always was competitive until he got cut with Muhammad.

    watching the Williams v Billy Daniels fight, right within Williams peak as a fighter, I saw absolutely nothing that would have bothered Cooper. Henry could have boxed Williams ears off.

    however there was always that chance Cooper could succumb to a bit of a roughhousing If ever it got too physical..and can quite conceivably see Henry pick up a nasty cut.

    I can’t see Henry managing to hold off Williams for the full ten rounds. Therefore I rule nothing out
     
  11. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    26,102
    41,931
    Mar 3, 2019
    Cooper put in an awesome performance and was a troubling style. Whereas Liston did neither while Ali rose to the occasion, massively.
     
  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    70,042
    24,045
    Feb 15, 2006
    You could mount a fair argument that Liston did better to be honest.

    He was doing OK before he quit on his stool.
     
    swagdelfadeel likes this.
  13. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    26,337
    10,009
    Jan 4, 2008
    Can't find the scorecards, but from memory they pretty much split both fights. AP at least had the second fight split after 5 rounds. I felt Ali was ahead.

    I think Ali showed in the 5th in the first fight that Cooper couldn't hang with him when he really opened up. Henry probably thought he could end it, but instead Ali used his head as a boxing ball. I don't think he really gets credit how he bounced back and showed what was what.

    But with that said, Henry's aggressiveness and quickness did give Ali a bit to think about even in the second fight. He had high workrate, brought fast pressure and had a good left hook. A tricky combination for Ali.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
    Fergy likes this.
  14. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    58,763
    21,435
    Nov 24, 2005
    No, looks like he threw a sloppy flapping left of his own, which Cooper ducked inside, Clay had his right hand low, and was countered by a very solid left hook.

    Nothing to do with talking to Liz Taylor.
     
    mark ant likes this.
  15. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

    24,295
    7,661
    Jul 15, 2008
    Agreed. He was old.