Why did Foreman find turning Frazier into mincemeat so easy?

The ref was very brave.

 

No, never

 

This I disagree with. I don't see Foreman getting past FOTC Frazier...but that depends on just how ugly Frazier gets at Foreman.

The degree of enmity Frazier had against Ali (the layoff didn't help the latter either, of course) made his FOTC performance the most impressive in heavyweight history imo. I just don't see Foreman being able to withstand that kind of determination.

Though Ali was NOT the puncher George was, watch the hail of punishment he reigned on Frazier during the early rounds of the FOTC. And Joe had a markedly underrated defense, he didn't Smoke against George like he did against Ali.

Frazier in 7.

 

I have some sympathy with this idea...however, to me what Joe mainly lost was his Smokin'. He was still a seriously dangerous opponent (watch the fights after Foreman).

To me, Joe did lose a bit in the FOTC...I don't think anyone could get hyped up like that more than once in a lifetime (****, look at Bowe, one great fight and it was mostly over).

 

FOTC had more to do with Ali's short comings then Joe's great fighting he had an excellent corner and held substantial advantages over Ali.
Smokin Joe never fought the same because the fighters he fought would not allow him to take advantage of there short comings in the way Ali did in there first fight.

 

This is a very good point.

 

Frazier defeated everyone he ever faced with the exception of Foreman. So it's not true, that "the fighters he fought would not allow him to take advantage of there short comings".

I also think you're dismissing both Ali, and Frazier's performances in their first bout. Both fought an ATG fight and very very few fighters would've defeated either man, that night. It was Frazier's finest hour but also the one that cost him the most. He was never the same after that bout.

 

Again I see parallels to Bowe Holy I (which was, besides Holmes-Norton, perhaps the other FOTC for heavies). Bowe never looked anywhere near that good again, while Holy went on to knock the yee-haw out of Iron Mike (and win what, THREE more titles?!).

Frazier was even MORE motivated than Bowe, MUCH more. And his fire kind of burned out a little.

 

Did Joe ever look so good against anyone other then Ali of FOTC?
He was facing an ATG yes, one he was taught how to exploit it was as much a tactical affair as Max-Louis 1 then it was a war. No fighter before or after FOTC on Joe's list of scalps was as great but as "open" as Ali that night thus creating "FOTC Joe" and a very entertaining bout.

 

Do you remember March 8 1971, on that night two heavyweights both laid claim to the World Heavyweight Title, Muhammad Ali defeated Sonny Liston for the title on Feb 25 1964, he defended his title 9 times, was stripped of his title in April 1967, was banished 43 months due to legal issues relating to the the military draft. Joe Frazier won the 5 state title on March 4 1968, defeating Buster Mathis, then the WBA Title on Feb 16 1970 by defeating champion Jimmy Ellis. On March 8 1971, both fighters gave it their absolute best that night. Joe earned a hard fought unanimous decision to retain the title. Both fighters took a beating physically. So when Frazier defended his title against undefeated George Foreman on Jan 22 1973, he was physically and psychologically spent. Knowing Joe's last two defenses were soft touches, Terry Daniels and Ron Stander in 1972, Foreman took quick advantage of this fact, bouncing Frazier off the canvas 6 times for a knockout win early, TKO 2.Also keep in mind, Joe was a slow starter.

 

If I remember correctly Rich, didn't you put money on Foreman to win?

 

I sure did my friend, I won $10.00 that night. The classmate that I bet with named Jimmy was laughing when the bet was made, but he was not laughing when I collected the next day. He paid up right away.

 

I can't believe you were so confident! lol I'd be hesitant to go against Frazier even knowing the result now my friend! What made you so confident in Foreman?

 

Joe spent time in the hospital following his fight against Muhammad Ali, he was hesitant to fight a top contender. Frazier would not give Ali a rematch right away, while Ali was fighting better fighters than Terry Daniels and Ron Stander, plus I had seen George Foreman fight before. George was undefeated, his boyhood idol was none other than Charles Sonny Liston.

 

Yeah it was more than obvious even from watching film, that TFOTC did take something out of Frazier, both physically and mentally but Foreman's resume was not exactly mind-blowing going into the bout so I would've been very nervous favoring him over The Champ.