Why did Hagler his bout v Leonard in an orthodox stance?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mark ant, Mar 26, 2020.


  1. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Just watching this study and wondering why he used the orthodox stance when he usually fought as a southpaw, would Marvin have won those early rounds using a southpaw stance?
     
  2. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Because he was an idiot. Mentally weak.
     
  3. zadfrak

    zadfrak Boxing Addict Full Member

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    And where were the Petronelli's when this happened? Working the sponge and spit bucket? Other trainers would have been yelling during the round & not waited until he got back to the corner.
     
  4. CharlesBurley

    CharlesBurley Active Member Full Member

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    It was Ray's quick lateral movement more than Hagler's stance being an issue. You can see Hagler keep getting set to punch and then Ray's gone. It happens time and again.

    The Duran loss maybe the best thing that ever happened to Leonard. He had to adapt his style to a fleetfooted counter punching mover. Duran 2 was the ideal preperation for Hagler even if it was 7 years earlier.

    Hagler himself said he wouldn't leave it to the judges and that his left and right would be the only judges needed. He thought he was going to KO Ray.

    BTW the guy analysing the fight was dead wrong on his scoring. Leonard swept those first 4 rounds clear as anything.
     
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  5. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    But Ray got caught a lot by Kalule who was in a southpaw stance.
     
  6. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I wouldn't say he was mentally weak. If he were mentally weak, he wouldn't have been able to tear into a very good puncher like Tommy knowing he was going to get hit frequently. Nor would he have been able to respond to Mugabi's bombs as he obviously couldn't get out of the way of them anymore. But one COULD make the case that he wasn't very bright in the ring.
     
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  7. zadfrak

    zadfrak Boxing Addict Full Member

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    maybe not ring smarts as such. But a very interesting observation by Leonard going into the fight was Marvin was mechanical. And he really was. so Leonard always knew what he was going to do.
     
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  8. CharlesBurley

    CharlesBurley Active Member Full Member

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    Completely different fights though. Leonard was walking Kalule down so was there to be hit. Here he was a matedor on his bike looking to box and move.

    So Hagler's job as the slower man was to cut off the ring and goto the body. He didn't manage it well enough not because of stance but because he didn't cut off the ring quickly enough and when he did Leonard turned him.
     
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  9. Flash24

    Flash24 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    In that fight he fought recklessly , if you watch Leonard
    in his prime he often did that if he had an opponent
    that wasn't a serious threat to him. His willingness
    to go on attack mode turned out to be the key to his victory
    over Hearns.
     
  10. AwardedSteak863

    AwardedSteak863 Active Member Full Member

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    It was a big time tactical error. It makes sense for some fighters to switch from their natural stance. A guy like Winky Wright who was a natural right hander fought as a southpaw and used his prominently stronger Right hand as a jab in the Southpaw stance to his advantage.

    Hagler had an excellent jab out of the southpaw stance and by fighting conventional he took away one of his own best weapons.
     
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  11. Pat M

    Pat M Active Member Full Member

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    I read something by Dundee in which he said that they found out that Hagler was right handed before the fight. Knowing that, they decided to have SRL move to Hagler's left side regardless of which stance Hagler was using. According to Dundee, Hagler had little power in his left.

    Today a lot of fighters fight with their strong hand in front. We try to watch them when they fill out paper work before the fight to see which hand is dominant.
     
  12. zadfrak

    zadfrak Boxing Addict Full Member

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    right.

    Dundee was concerned with Hagler's right hook. That was the shot that hurt folks. So he recognized and equally important, Leonard listened and obeyed.
     
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  13. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    That`s a pretty good point because I never heard Dundee give any specific advise to a fighter aside from Nunn when he was fighting Toney, when he told Nunn to follow up his jab wit the left hand because the jab was being countered by Toney, which is fairly basic advice.
     
  14. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It was a tactical error but truth be told when they was fresh SRL was always going to outslick him. Southpaw would have made it a little harder but it quite likely would have happened anyway.
     
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  15. surfinghb1

    surfinghb1 Member Full Member

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    Haven't seen the correct answer yet so I will inform my compadres here … Yes it is IMO … but I think Hagler thought he could easily outbox Ray .. And it was important for Hagler to be the more popular fighter here .. .This just wasn't going to happen, no one was more popular than SRL .. So it really didn't matter if he came out righty because he thought he could beat Ray either way and he wanted to prove that. Ray was already in his head and it showed .. I think if Marvin was focused and left the mind games out of it, he wins the fight …. I can understand that trying a strategy to come out righty to mix things up .. but if it didn't work in the first round ,, why do it in the 2nd? He underestimated Ray and it showed
     
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