Why did Holyfield struggle against lesser fighters

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Toney F*** U, Jul 21, 2020.

  1. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher Lineal Champion Full Member

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    Crazy the first PPV That was actually available to be ordered in Home where I lived was also the first Holyfield - Bowe fight. I was 17 at the time. Prior to that we had to go to our local event Center and watch the pay-per-view in more of a closed circuit type environment, which was also lots of fun. I believe Len Berman was the one calling that fight with Al Bernstein for TVKO. The HBO replay Always got more repeat playtime on VHS back in the day in my house because it always looked a little crisper than the pay-per-view feed. But I happen to love Al Bernsteins call during that fight, especially during the 10th round..
     
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  2. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Well-Known Member Full Member

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    If you look at it that way, you should include his wins against tier 2 comp. as well.

    I think Bowe was close to prime ATG level at his best, way better than Moorer or Cooper. If we include both of them, someone could argue that he was a bit of hot and cold against tier 2 comp. some times.

    Too much of Holyfield is made out of the Shadow of Mike Tyso imho, while Holyfield at the same time had better competition.
     
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  3. slash

    slash Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Holyfield would hold some people up, now. He let some lesser, and greater, opponents off the hook.. he would wind it up and hold it.. but he he finally hit Bean with that uppercut that he never did before, the one he always held back. 10th rd. I'll be damned if Bean didn't rise from the dead. And then Holyfield had to chase off Butch Lewis, Frazier etc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
  4. Ted Stickles

    Ted Stickles Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Sometimes it’s motivation, feeling under the weather, bored, styles clash etc

    it could be a lot of things.
     
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    I think he struggled too much in his tier two wins. For example, he was floored and hurt by Bert Cooper, and looked terrible vs Vaughn Bean.
     
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  6. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Fact are facts. The BS is your judging thinking Holfyield won the 2nd Lewis fight. Just admit it, Holyfield was very inconsistent, was clearly beaten in the series vs Bowe and Lewis, and split vs Moorer. He also looked suspect in victory vs guys he should have cleaned up on.

    Guilty of PED's, and sometimes dirty fighting too.

    Facts. Try embracing them.
     
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  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Lets expand the data, Wlad was Ko'd 3 times in his first 68 fights! Holfyield had 57 total fights, losing 10 0f them and drawing twice, and we know both draw was BS. Had Holfyield presses on, he's getting stopped more often. As a boxer Wlad towers above Holyfield.

    If you really want to count the rounds won to rounds lost in Holfyield prime vs Bowe, Moorer, and say Lewis, he's behind on the cards.
     
  8. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    So, your scorecards are facts now LOOOL
     
  9. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Well, he was KO'd 3 times in his first 45 fights actually.
    Holyfield was KO'd just once in his first 45 fights.

    "if Holyfield presses on" ? ..... You're actually implying that Holyfield didn't fight on as long as Wlad for this comparison ?
    Yes, Wlad had 69 total fights and Holyfield had 57 fights.
    But Holyfield was fighting a 15 round world cruiser title fight in his 12th fight, he was winning the UNDISPUTED HEAVYWEIGHT title in his 25th fight.

    What was Wlad doing in his 25th fight ?
    ANSWER : He was getting beat by journeyman Ross Purrity.

    7 of Holyfield's losses came after he turned 37 years old, btw.
    5 of them came after he turned 40.

    Losing to guys like prime Bowe and prime Lewis really isn't that bad.
    Losing to Moorer was a bad performance and result but still the fight could have easily have been scored Holyfield's way.

    ...... and Moorer was a better fighter than the likes of Purrity and Brewster.
     
  10. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Especially when considering that Vitali lost to past prime and overweight Lewis
     
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  11. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'm a fan of both Wlad and Holyfield, and your post just made me smile.

    1) Both draws were BS. - You still score Ruiz - Holy 3 (a draw) for Ruiz? Cause most observers and fans scored it 7-5 or 8-4 for Holyfield.

    2) Holfyield had 57 total fights, losing 10 0f them. -
    Holy had his 1st title fight in 12th bout. By the age 30, when his 1st defeat occured, he was already 2-weight undisputed world champion, 28-0, 22 KOs, and 10 title fights. He lost 5 of these fights (Valuev fight was a robbery anyway) after he turned 40 y.o.

    3) Had Holfyield presses on, he's getting stopped more often. - LOL what a load of bias. Holy fought everyone, Tyson, Lewis, Bowe - all of them multiple times - as well as many other dangerous elite opponents, and he pressed on more than enough. He was stopped twice in a career that lasted 27 years, his second stoppage loss came at 41.

    Holyfield has defeated 7 different lineal HW champions - that's a fact you can't deny. That's more wins over lineal HW champions than anyone in the history of HW division.

    He wasn't as dominant in his victories as were Wlad, Lennox, Bowe, because he was way shorter, lighter and didn't hit as hard as them. Still his career is extremely impressive for anyone not as biased as you.
     
  12. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    "had Holyfield pressed on" has to be one of the funniest statements ever written here.
    :lol:
     
  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    1. No no. I scored Ruiz vs Holyfield 1 for Ruiz and it wasn't close. The judges had it as a BS Draw. A robbery. I am not talking about the 3rd fight. My point is Ruiz was robbed to a draw in the first fight, and won the second clearly. Are we cool now on this point?

    2 ) As an older fighter, he lost to Donald, Byrd, Toney, etc... I said before Holy was on PED's his entire career, so that should somewhat take away from the he was washed up excuse.

    3 ) Yes, he fought good competition He 1-2 vs Bowe, and should be 0-2 in Lewis. Clearly he was NOT in their class. He split with Moorer at 1-1, that is more where he belongs. He should be 1-2 vs John Ruiz. Extrapolated that's 3-7

    Oh yeah be beat a past his prime Mike Tyson. Those are the best he fought. He also had trouble with an 40+ year old Holmes and Foreman and didn't look good vs non ranked fighters at times. If you fight everyone 2-3 times, and win one, it doesn't make you an ATG by losing the series vs the two best you fought , splinting with another brief champion, and losing to a guy in Ruiz's level on fair score cards.
     
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  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    How do we know Lewis was past his prime? That would take a second fight to prove. He quit the game when the WBC ordered the re-match and never looked this way before. As I said, he looked very good vs Rahman in the re-match.
     
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  15. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The first Holyfield-Ruiz fight was close, could have gone either way. A dull fight.
    Pretending Holyfield (who was almost 38 years old and had been in loads of wars) wasn't way over-the-hill, is just silly.