As a reminder ...... PRIME HOLYFIELD : This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected THE SHELL OF HOLYFIELD : This content is protected This content is protected
Who made highlights of Holyfield vs Ruiz trilogy? That trilogy makes Hopkins vs Allen look like Gatti vs Ward.
Even if your claim is sound, which it isn't, when was the alleged "provisional agreement" made? Was anything written down or was it just someone telling Murad Muhammad anything he wanted to hear to get him off the phone? Given Muhammad was aiming at Holyfield and Tyson, as well as Lewis and he failed to land a fight with any of them, is it reasonable to assume that nothing serious was ever on the table as far as Jones, his heavyweight strap and a unification was concerned? Here's some better evidence... After the Lewis/Vitali match, Lewis declared that he wasn't going to fight again for the rest of the year - Daily Telegraph August 10, 2003. Jones returned to Light Heavyweight, having announced the possibility of fighting Tarver in August. The official announcement of their fight was reported on September 12, 2003, in the Tampa Tribune.
So Vitali belongs in the same class of the Sam Peters , Chris Arroelas , Herbie Hides etc?? According your criteria he does.
Tokyo Douglas was much better than the version that fought Holyfield, when he was fat and not that motivated. Tokyo Douglas stands a good chance.
Thought I was rather fair as I cited opponents through ALL phases of his career. It’s not like he wasn’t competitive when he lost to Byrd and Toney although obviously out of prime.
See the interview below. Also Steward is on record as saying he told Lennox, you either need to re-match Vitali to prove your still number 1 or retire. Which I think when you consider how Lewis was avoided shows a great deal of decency. Lennox could of taken the realitive easy money against Jones. PC: You were handling Roy Jones when he captured the heavyweight title. I understand at one point he was very serious about fighting Lewis, Holyfield or Tyson. How close where those fights to being a reality? MM: When he won the heavyweight championship of the world, he was the king of the mountain. Once we won the heavyweight title, he was the man. It was the ultimate goal. He told me, "Let's go get Lennox Lewis." Lennox Lewis accepted $25 million to fight Roy Jones Jr., but he had one obstacle in front of him and that was HBO had to put him in there against Klitschko. Keep in mind, Klitschko was supposed to fight the kid from Canada [Kirk Johnson]. The kid from Canada pulled out, so HBO was stuck with egg on their face and they needed someone to fulfill that position. Well, Lennox Lewis said, "No man, I'm not going to fight him for that kind of money when next year, ya'll are going to have to pay me a great deal of money. I'll fight him next year." But when I put $25 million on the table, he said, "Let's fight Klitschko now!" Now HBO should have sent me a letter or a check or anything else because I saved them. And Lennox Lewis went in there and he won the fight, but he was embarrassed at how he won the fight. He didn't do as good as he wanted to do, so he retired. So that fight went out of the window. Then we went and got Evander Holyfield. We offered Evander Holyfield $9 million. His lawyer at the time said that Don King owed him $2 million and they argued over why Don King should pay him $2 million. He [Don King] allowed me to offer him $9 million because he didn't have to. I said, "Well, Don is right. He don't have to let me give you $9 million when he's got an exclusive contract. You can't charge the man $2 million when he's allowing you to make $9 million, which you can not make without me." The lawyer thought Don should pay $2 million [on top of the $9 million offer], so I went up to $10 million. I said, "Look, here is $10 million. Let Don go for the million and this fight is on." He said, "Nah, Holyfield won't do that!" I said, "That don't make any sense." So Don goes out and calls Holyfield everything you can think of. He said, "I tell you what! I will go back and present this to Holyfield." So I saw him [Holyfield's lawyer] in the bathroom and I said, "First of all counselor, I appreciate that you are negotiating in good faith, because one thing about African Americans, for some reason, a Caucasian don't have their welfare in mind. HBO needs this fight. Who says he's not going to win? It's up to the will of God whether he wins this fight or not. He beats Roy Jones Jr. and not only does he make $10 million, but he makes another $25 million for a rematch. So that's a great deal of money, especially if you telling me that Holyfield needs the money. However, don't go back and tell your boxer [Holyfield] everything that Don King said because if you do that, I know us as a people. Holyfield's going to tell everybody to go to Hell." Well, because I later promoted Holyfield, he told me that's just what happened. The lawyer never told him that there was $10 million on the table; he just said that Don called him all kinds of names, so he [Holyfield] said, "The hell with Don King." He went on and fought the next fight and lost, so things happen when you leave your welfare in the hands of mercenaries. So we lost Holyfield. Then one day, just before Thanksgiving, Roy said, "Let's go get Mike Tyson." I said, "You sure?" He said, "Yes. I want Mike! I can beat Mike Tyson. Let's go get Mike Tyson." So I called Mike and Mike met me in New Jersey at 1 o'clock in the morning. I flew all the way in from Florida to see Mike. I offered Mike $25 million to fight Roy Jones Jr. He accepted it. He called Roy on the phone and told Roy Jones Jr. that he's willing to fight, let's do this, but he asked Roy for one thing. He said, "If I lose the fight, you give me a rematch. If we do 3 fights man, I guarantee we'll never have to work again in this sport." He told him, "Roy, I'm gonna dog you. Don't take it personal. I'm not crazy. I'm going to dog you because it's going to sell a lot of tickets. I love you today and I will love you when it's over with. The fight is on." Some kind of way, Mike Tyson needed to get out of the deal that he was in. He said he wanted to file bankruptcy. I said, "Mike, if you're going to file bankruptcy, you should file Chapter 7." He said, "No because I'm going to lose my automobiles." He was worried about automobiles. I said, "Listen, you file Chapter 7, the kind of money you're getting ready to make, you can buy any kind of automobile you want out there." Someone convinced him to file Chapter 11, where all of his money had to go into an escrow account and be governed by Shelly Finkel; they were going to hold it right there. That's what ruined the fight. PC: So Roy had all 3 giants lined up? MM: Roy had all 3 lined up, so he got kind of discouraged and he told me he wanted to go back down and fight for the light heavyweight title. I said, "Champ, do not do that," and we will leave it there. PC: With Roy Jones fighting on and choosing not to hang them up, you know Roy very well, do you give him a chance against Bernard Hopkins on April 3? MM: Roy is not going to walk away. He's gotta prove it to himself that it's over. I believe Roy Jones Jr. believes that he can win and it wouldn't shock me if he did. The problem in this fight is Bernard, I believe, did not want to fight Roy, fearful that he was going to lose to Roy. When he saw that Roy got knocked out in the 1st round, then he mustered up the guts to say, "Okay, let's fight!" That bothers me because I was there for the negotiations when he [Hopkins] was offered $10 million and they could have made $20 to $30 million when it was all said and done, but he would not take the fight. I put Roy on the phone with Bernard and Bernard said, "Okay, I will take the fight, but whose gonna pay Don King?" Roy and I said, "We're not going to pay Don King." I said, "Why would we pay your promoter?" He said, "Because he has a contract on me and I ain't paying him." I said, "Well, I don't know what you're going to do. Man, you don't want to fight. You're just whistling Dixie man. You're either going to fight or you're not going to fight. You signed a contract with Don King, so you gotta pay Don King." He goes, "Well I'm not paying Don King." So he blew that fight. We tried to put a fight on with Bernard Hopkins two or three times and it did not happen. I believe, and this is my humble opinion, that Bernard was fearful of Roy Jones Jr. He could not beat Roy Jones Jr. Now that Roy got knocked out, all of a sudden, Bernard is gung ho to fight Roy Jones Jr. An old trainer by the name of Cus D'Amato told me at my dinner table in Atlantic City, "The worst fighter to fight is an old pro that has one more fight left in him." This is when Mike Tyson was an amateur. Bill Cayton, Jim Jacobs, Cus D'Amato, Mike Tyson, along with the gentleman that took over Big Fights; my God he's going to shoot me I can't remember his name, but he acts just like Jim Jacobs. He is one of the best young men that I ever knew in the business. That's when Cus D'Amato told me, "One of the worst fighters you can fight is an old veteran with one fight left in him." So my prediction is Roy has one more fight left in him and he beats Bernard. If it's time for him to retire, he will lose against Bernard. That's my humble opinion.
Ruiz is nowhere near the best he fought. Mercer, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson are all better than Ruiz. So using your tally system here : He is actually 8-7 With 4 of those losses coming after the age of 37. Wow I never rated Holy that highly but after reading your post I concede, he is much better than I ever appreciated.
Vitali won as many rounds vs Lewis in 6 and Holfyield did in 12. Unlike Holyfield he had Lewis hurt. I'm not sure if Byrd is the 2nd best Vitali fought, and he only won because of a torn shoulder, way up on points. Once again Vitali won more rounds vs Byrd than Holyfield. There is 10% chance at best Byrd wins the re-match, Lewis opted to rerite over taking the WBC ordered re-match. Lennox he knew he was lucky, and let's be perfectly clear, Lewis landed an illegal back hand over Vitali's eye region just before the cut appeared. So you see it was an injury and cut, not ability. Vitali was never ever behind or down in any of his pro fights. Holfyield cant come close to that. He only got lots of chances...and had tremendous BS form the judges in his favor.
You could easily give Bowe a draw on the 2nd fight too. Holyfield was much younger than Holmes or Foreman....he had issues with both and should have won via larger margin. Stopped Tyson twice? UM, wasn't it a DQ the 2nd time? Talk about bending facts! Fine add Tyson, I'll add Toney who KO'd Holy and Donald, who boxed him silly? Deal? 10 LOSSES. and two gift draw that should be losses. BS, you can not argue the 2nd Lewis fight was a draw. I'll challenge you to present your full score cards by round on Holyfield vs Ruiz 1 and Lewis 2. You won't because it would be embarrassing. I know it, you know it, and most importantly I know that you know it. Holyfield simply did not preform at a high level and got gifts from the judges. I find it a joke that you indicated he was out of his prime for the Bowe fights.
