why did Larry Holmes never once try and unify?

But Larry dropped his price three times. He came down from 15 to12 million accepting a 8 million purse. Coetzee signed for 3 million. Both guys really wanted the fight. The problems were more to do with getting a venue, promotional exclusivity deals and meeting conflicting political deadlines.

 

There was a substantial miscalculation regarding what the fight was worth. That's what stopped the fight. They would have actually had to take huge cuts to make it viable once everything was worked out.

 

I don't think there was any confusion about who the Heavyweight Champion was. Everyone knew it was Holmes. Guys like Weaver, Tubbs, Bonecrusher, Page. Nobody thought they were champions. Larry probably didn't want to pay sanctioning fees.
I do think Larry checked out a little after defeating Gerry Cooney. He got paid. I dont think he trained the way he once did. He was getting by on knowledge and experience. Honestly some of those guys he faced were better than the other ""belt holders" Witherspoon and Carl The Truth Williams were talented contenders.

 

You can add David Bey and Marvis to that since they registered earlier wins over Page and Bonecrusher within a year of those two being listed as WBA champions.

 

I don’t think it necessarily was a miscalculation over what the fight was worth. It seemed Larry was going to get black balled until he returned to Don King. The Heavyweight championship was a closed shop. The governing bodies and casinos knew who they wanted to work with. There were other promoters willing to stage the Holmes v Coetzee fight. Kushner, Murad Muhammad were willing to stage it but they were met with extraordinary difficulties. It’s all well documented that the fight was signed for and a June date was set. Purses were agreed.

 

Yes and the money fell thru...because of reasons i stated. Anyways.

 

Nooo, we never would have seen the Indomitable, Immortal Scott Frank fight!!!

 

Hey...

Not everyone can be Marciano and consistently face their #1 contender 5 out of 6 lineal title defenses.

 

I’m no apologist for Scotty Frank but Was there much between Berbick and Snipes when they fought?

Was there much between Witherspoon and Snipes when they fought?

well Scott Frank drew with the same Snipes!

 

Frank wasn’t a bad prospect. He had won all of his pro fights and was being handled by the Duva family. He just shouldn’t have been fighting for the title in place of someone like Coetzee or page

 

Yeah, I doubt the money would have “fell through” if Don was trying to put that fight together…with him having the cooperation of the governing bodies and casinos.

 

Agree 100%.

The page fight didn’t happen because Larry asked the WBC for an extension so he could first fight Marvis Frazier for another promoter. But the WBC sided with Don king and said Larry must first fight Page (who was contracted with Don King) for a lot less money than was on the table for Marvis. They wouldn’t wait one fight. There was no urgency to meet Page first, he had already lost to a guy Larry beat. Would lose to Witherspoon then David Bey.

The Coetzee fight almost happened. They signed. Purses agreed. Unlike the WBC, the IBF allowed Larry to pursue a unification ahead of taking mandatory obligations…but a year was waisted trying to make it happen.

 

Page’s 1984 defeats have no bearing on what his rating was in 1983. Most people EVENTUALLY lose at some point. This doesn’t give Holmes the benefit of hindsight. As for Larry taking on Marvis and postponing the Page fight, it had been well over a year and four fights since he had faced a mandatory. His last four defenses included Tex Cobb, Lucien Rodriguez, Tim Witherspoon and Scott Frank- none of whom were mandatories, belt holders, fan favorites or anything of the sort. In fact there might even be some debate as to weather or not some of them even belonged in the top 10 under an honest system. I mean Lucien Rodriguez ? Really ? So no… Holmes should not have been given leeway to face a ten fight prospect with no mandatory status rather than to fight his #1 challenger. And The Coetzee fight which fell apart wasn’t proposed until 1984. Meanwhile back in good old 1983 Holmes was taking on second raters while Coetzee challenged Dokes for the WBA and kicked his ass !! Then of course 1984 finally rolled around…. Holmes flight ONCE within this calendar year taking on the 14-1 Bonecrusher Smith…. Smith had no serious rating except #11 by the WBC-a title Holmes was no longer even holding !!! Meanwhile several more qualified opponents waited in the wings.

 

page had a 1982 defeat to Trevor Berbick. Greg then rebounded with a points win over Snipes which hardly made Page a logical contender. since Larry beat Snipes all Renaldo had done was draw with Scott Frank, lost to Tim Witherspoon then edged Berbick. No great shakes.

And in this time the WBA was being contested between Weaver and Dokes.

what great opponents was Dokes beating to get a shot at Weaver?

yes Coetzee was a kind of exclusive WBA challenger for their title since 1979. Each champ had to fight Gerrie for one reason or another. Shall we look into who Gerrie was beating to earn three shots at the WBA title?.

outside of Thomas, who, that Larry had not already beaten, was really more qualified? Page who was losing to Bey? Right after beating the same Bonecrusher Larry had just beat Tony Tubbs gets a crack at the WBA title…. If Larry was handpicking Bonecrusher what was the WBA champ doing? He’s fighting the next guy that beat Bonecrusher one fight away from losing himself to the last guy Larry knocked out

 

"choklab, post: 21474853, member: 50845"]page had a 1982 defeat to Trevor Berbick. Greg then rebounded with a points win over Snipes which hardly made Page a logical contender. since Larry beat Snipes all Renaldo had done was draw with Scott Frank, lost to Tim Witherspoon then edged Berbick. No great shakes.

And in this time the WBA was being contested between Weaver and Dokes.

what great opponents was Dokes beating to get a shot at Weaver?

yes Coetzee was a kind of exclusive WBA challenger for their title since 1979. Each champ had to fight Gerrie for one reason or another. Shall we look into who Gerrie was beating to earn three shots at the WBA title?.

outside of Thomas, who, that Larry had not already beaten, was really more qualified? Page who was losing to Bey? Right after beating the same Bonecrusher Larry had just beat Tony Tubbs gets a crack at the WBA title…. If Larry was handpicking Bonecrusher what was the WBA champ doing? He’s fighting the next guy that beat Bonecrusher one fight away from losing himself to the last guy Larry knocked out[/QUOTE]

1. It was better shakes than ANYTHING those other guys did. Since losing to Berbick, Page won four strait fights and convincingly outboxed Snipes which neither spoon nor Frank could do. Spoon had his jaw broken by snipes and left fans wondering if he even deserved the decision then proceeded to take a full year off before fighting Holmes. Frank fought snipes to a draw. During this time page had beaten snipes, Tillis, Larry Frazier and Rick Keller AND was Holmes mandatory. Before losing to Berbick he had also beaten Monroe, Chaplin, evangelista, and young. His credentials were head over heels higher than any guy Holmes fought post Cooney with respect to what they had done to the time of their meetings with him.
2. Well Dokes beat Tex Cobb, Lucien Rodriguez and ossie ocasio who you don’t seem to have a problem with Holmes fighting. He was also undefeated and a man the king organization was grooming to be Larry’s successor.

3. Shall we look at who Lucien Rodriguez, Scott Frank, Tex Cobb or Marvis Frazier were beating to get a shot at Holmes ?
4. “ who outside of Thomas “ isn’t the reality. That was a major contender/fellow belt holder and instead of fighting him in 1984-85, Larry fought Smith, Bey, Williams and Spinks. I’ll also add that while Tony Tubbs credentials were thin, they were still better in 1985 than those other guys. Hell even a fight with Page despite the Bey loss might have settled some of the ill feelings people had about Holmes ducking him. Or hey how about a rematch with Witherspoon given that Larry barely edged him years earlier and since then spoon had re-emerged as a top player ? There were all sorts of options.

Let’s face it… the last serious number one contender Holmes fought was Gerry Cooney in June 1982. From that point to the time he lost to spinks in September of 1985, Larry Holmes never fought anyone within shouting distance of a mandatory rating, or a fellow belt holder. Furthermore he struggled mightily in some cases with some of the men he DID fight.