Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, Jan 8, 2019.
Why did Wlad get KOed by Purrity, Sanders and Brewster?
Few people actually know that, but Joe Louis had a serious illness back in the day. The doctors called it Flashenite Knockdownsteria.
There is no known cure. The disease continues to make victims to this day, like Felix Trinidad and Juan Manuel Marquez. May God help them.
Make a thread?
Or are you saying Wlad got stopped for the same reasons Louis got dropped?
For the same reason? Including opposition with some finishing capability?
A great thread that exposes the insecurities of all the Louis posters. The correct answer was "it's heavyweight boxing". No need for these essays
It was actually worse than that. Louis made the mistake of standing within Galento's punching range with his right too low and far from his face, while he ****ed back his left for a bowling-ball style shovel punch/uppercut(?). Galento (of all people!) timed him with a shorter, tighter punch and got there first.
Braddock, a non-power hitter removed two years from his last fight floored Louis. Poor defense and chin here are the cause.
Galento. Caught by a short man with a limited reach and skills. If Galento can do it, 50 others could as well. Again poor defense and chin are to blame.
B Bear. Buddy wasn't very skilled, but he was big and could it. He knocked Louis down, and Louis fell favorably through the ropes, landing in a good spot, and not out of the ring. I'd have to see the video again, but Baer's range could be a factor here.
Walcott - Many of these were defensive issues, and counters. More due to his lack of defense and balance than his chin. Walcott floored Louis three times
I do not think any of these punches that landed from the above fighters would have floored quite a few heavyweight champions. None of the above knockdowns were due to lots of punches landing, they happened early. As I said before Billy Conn stunned Louis below 170 pounds and he was not a puncher at all.
The two best puncher's that landed something significant was Schmeling and Marciano. Louis lost both fights via KO. Schmeling had Louis hurt for many rounds after the first knockdown. A good, but not elite level hitter from a sub-200-pound man is all that is needed to stop Louis, provided he can land it. That is what Louis chin level should be viewed, and non punchers could floor him thanks to a leaky defense and balance.
Early candidate for best post of the year
How many times was he down? Quite a bit. Not just the 3 or 4 times people like to recount, but many more times than that.
He was fighting guys who were under 200lbs, and the ones who were over 200lbs weren't good. Its no secret his opposition wasn't stellar.
He wasn't stopped but he was down plenty. So only if you're stopped does that mean you have a questionable chin? No- he had great recouperative powers and kept a cool head under that kind of pressure, and as a legendary champion should, he got up and kicked their butt most of the time. But he did visit the canvas plenty. He didnt have the best chin.
You know Wlad was never counted out, right?
If you have to make the case against his chin based on fights where he was not stopped, then the case obviously isn't very good.
That argument simply doesn't cut it.
If you take a fighter who doesn't have particularly good defense, or a particularly good chin, and match him against dozens of top ten ranked cruiser weights, then he is going to get stopped a lot.
There are fighters who can hit like a freight train in every era, whether it is a weak era or a strong era.
Well he must have had something.
He can't have been surviving all of these contenders for no reason!
Because he was in a FIGHT against Top Fighters and Got HIT!!!
why does that always have to equate to a flaw or limitation.
even lesser fighters if they get a good punch in can cause upsets. these forums often end up in futile discussions.
Great fighters Can and Did and DO get dropped and even lose... so what. but most of the time on even terms come out the victors and so do all top fighters.
Nothing unusual about such things in a FIGHT!
I understand that you are basing your opinion on stoppage...
I am basing my opinion on droppage.
Yes, if a guy doesn't get stopped much he has a good chin. That should be obvious.
If a guy gets dropped many times in fights (Louis), and hes being compared to guys who very rarely get dropped (Ali, Holmes, etc), the first guy doesn't have as good a chin as the other two right?
Being knocked down period. Thats the measure of a chin in my opinion.
Being stopped or not after a knockdown is dependent on many variables, such as how good the other guy is at finishing, how good the downed fighter recovers, how tired he is, how close to the bell, etc.
Fighter A and fighter B have 20 fights each against the same opposition.
Fighter A gets dropped 10 times. Fighter B never gets dropped. Neither guy was stopped.
Does fighter A have as good a chin as fighter B?
Your tone suggests I think Louis is a bum.
Yes Louis was great. Yes he was a helluva lot better than his opposition was. He beat plenty of good fighters. He did get dropped. Alot. Would Ali or Holmes for examples get dropped by those guys with such frequency? Seriously doubt it. And that's why I say Louis' chin wasnt the best. Relative to other champs, he got dropped alot.
That's all I'm saying.
He fought 8 future former or current World Heavyweight Champions, in a time of one belt per division.
I'm aware of that.
Geez you guys really start assuming alot.
Face it. Dude had a questionable chin. Thats all I said.
From that, I'm hearing assumptions that I think Louis was a bum and had nothing to offer.