Why Did Razor Ruddock Brawl with Tyson?

Agree, some boxers just have another's number no matter how many times they fight or when they fight Evander was Tyson's nemesis, as was Lewis though the question marks over his ability to take a shot of a prime Tyson would still be there.

 

It wasn't a choice. Tyson ruled the fights.Always the better fighter/player/athlete rules the game(in other sports also).
It's a logical outcome.

 

Agreed but with ruddock it was physical but with Tyson it was mental. Once he knew he could be beaten, he no longer felt like ' the baddest man on the planet ', he lost confidence and motivation to train.

 

what are u on about?
Tyson didn't lose motivation in fact after seperating with Rooney, Tysons over confidence grew and its what cost him against Douglas.

unless your referring to the post prison version of Tyson who lost to Holyfield.

if Tyson was mentally affected after Douglas, gr would have caved in vs Ruddock

 

Quick question, do you believe Tyson wasn't motivated for the Holyfield fight??

 

not for the first one, just look at Tysons pre fight comments and compare them to the 91 Tyson Holyfield press conference, there's your answer

 

Chuvalo only joined after Razor had been through a few other trainers. The only constant in that corner was his brother Delroy.

 

Fair point. I think once he knew he could be beaten, tyson relied too much on his punching power and neglected his boxing, combinations, head movement etc because he wanted to get his opponents out there as soon as possible because he no longer felt unbeatable. He did more strength training at the cost of other areas. I have no doubt he still had confidence in his own ability but think he worried more about what his opponent brought to the table

 

Sorry I'm not buying that at all, Tyson knew how much of a great fighter he was and would never underestimate him no matter what he said afterwards. Tyson could have trained his ass off, got back with Rooney and he still would have been beat IMO.

 

add me to that list. I'm not sure how Evander would have hurt him, Tyson showed amazing stamina and durability before prison. the loss of the two ingredients made him a sitting duck after round 4 post prison. Evander was still a deadly adversary, the fight would have been sheer war and I don't rule out a win for him either

Ruddock didnt have many ideas in the Tyson fights, he fought with heart but he must have worried when Mike was taking his famous smash punches lol. i think it also showed how Tyson had slipped, his more elusive self probably could have made easier work of ruddock.

great fight though, the rematch is probably my favourite Tyson fight as it shows him getting whacked but not discouraged, people really ignore this fight when the "crumble under pressure" argument if brought up.

 

Well he went 11.5 rounds with Holyfield and took a beating, after only boxing just 8 rounds in 4 years. That in itself speaks volumes about how Tyson would have performed in 91 when he was much better in every possible way (unles syou feel the '96 Tyson was the same as the Tyson of '91?)

Holyfield regardless of whether he was shot or not, was still ACTIVE during this period, and active against top notch opposition like Bowe, Moorer, Mercer, Holmes and Foreman etc.

You dont have to buy it, it clearlys visible on tape.

Look at the shape Tyson was in for the Bruno (2) fight and look how chubby he looked vs Holyfield (1).

Compare the two press conferences, theyre on youtube.

Tyson (1991) 'Holyfield is a great fighter, he has a great coach, this will be a tough fight, ive trained really hard'

Tyson (1996) 'You've got nothing left old man, you cant do anything, im going to enjoy this'

Tyson in the James Toback film 'Holyfield is a good fighter, but he wasnt in my league i believed'

If you dont want to believe it thats fine

 

Holyfield would always have been tough for Tyson, im not denying that. But i feel too much is made of their meeting in '96.

One thing which is rarely mentioned, i feel Tysons punch resistance had deterioated in prison, either that or he hadnt done enough quality sparring. Tyson was flinching everytime Holyfield hit him with even a jab, normally a sign that the fighter hasnt been punched in the face in a long time. Compare that to the Tyson who literally walked through Razor Ruddocks punches and occasionally smiling at him.

To me, the Tyson/Holyfield series is similar to the Pacqiauo/Marquez fights.

Marquez always had Pacqiaos number stylistically, however due to Pacqiaos speed and combinations and Marquez tendency to brawl, cost Marquez those fights.

Look at the 3rd and 4th fights, Marquez bulked up (much like Holyfield), he fought a much more patient fight, avoided brawling as much as possible and along with Pacqiauos slight decline in speed and combinations, Marquez got the results.

Tyson/Holyfield of 91' would have been a totally different fight.

Riddick Bowes comments after the first fight with Holyfield were the reason he fought so aggressively against Holyfield was because Holyfield couldnt hurt him.

I feel Tyson would have walked through Holyfield in '91, even in 96 he was foolishly wading in to Holyfields punches and not relying on any defence. Tysons own comments were his punches didnt hurt me, but he kept me off balance but i still feel i could have beaten him.

Theres a thread i did a while back with an article from Sports Illustrated, Tyson has some interesting comments regarding the 2 Holyfield fights

 

I don't consider it punch resistence. Which is a category in the fight Evander has a big edge in anyway.

Mike fell for feints after getting hit. What you never saw was matchmaking with opponents capable of landing combos, then feinting. Well, we did with Buster, didn't we?

It was always a bad habit of his & especially the second half of a fight.
but a guy had to get to the second half of a fight and guys like Smith and Tucker didn't land the combos.

Sometimes isn matches you have to look beyond the trunk of the tree. If you go out to the 3rd branch, he did fall for feints. But very few guys were capable of taking him there. And Ruddock and his 1 handed attack and anemic punch rate of 20 per round isn't going to take Mike there.

Evander can do that. Then, that parachute opens. And when that parachute opens, it just isn't the same guy we saw winging away at the Alex Stewarts.

But there was only a few guys capable of getting to that stage to exploit that flaw. But it doesn't mean the flaw is not there.

 

Holyfield of 96 was nowhere near the fighting force he once was either, I don't think Tyson took a big beating up until the 10th round although he had mike hurt and stunned in the second round.

Of course Tyson is going to talk trash and insult before a fight, that's how he his.

IMO if they'd have thought in 91, Holyfield who in those days threw way more combinations would have probably stopped Tyson even earlier because he can't handle fast combinations being landed on him, but that would leave Holyfield being more vulnerable to being tagged himself.

 

But can you not see the difference between 'Holyfield is a great fighter and ive trained hard' to 'Youve got nothing left old man'

to me one sounds like a guy taking his opponent seriously while the other thinks this will be a pushover.

Although Holyfield was younger and threw more combinations, he wasnt as big and muscular as he was in 96 so he wouldnt be able to wrestle and clinch Tyson and push him around in 91, something which he did to great effect in 96 and something which threw Tyson off his gameplan.

Holyfield fought a near perfect fight in 96, in 91 he would have fought Tysons fight.