Why did Spinks put on 25lb to fight Holmes?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Mar 25, 2016.


  1. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    I see where you are at, let me expand.

    Spinks was a better more effective fighter at 200 vs 175 however fighting at 200 meant he had to fight opponents myriads harder to beat due to their weight and size adavantages.

    The extra difficulty of these opponents far outweighed the small advantages Spinks gained in weighing more.

    So he never spent most of his career fighting at 200 as he was no-where near as good a heavyweight as he was light heavyweight. The opposition was simply infinitely more difficult.

    Truth be told imo he ambushed Holmes. Holmes was a 6-1 favorite and i reckon the rematch tells us Holmes was all sorts of overconfident. Spinks used all his wily underrated skills in going from 175 pound assassin to heavyweight cutie, and cutie understates it as he was pretty much pitter patter tho he landed the odd full shot.

    Holmes was woeful in the initial match, but came into the second in great shape and beat Spinks comfortably.

    The only decent blow Holmes landed in the first bout near put Spinks down. If he fought at heavyweight he would have had nightmares with Witherspoon, Page, Dokes, Coetzee and all the rest of them. He may have snuck in the odd decision victory (they were a very inconsistent bunch on the whole) but every minute of every round would have represented danger time as all of them would have been knockout threats.

    Prime Holmes would have beaten Spinks with enormous ease.
     
  2. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Again, it's just the opposition for Spinks to fight at heavy. Night and day. It's perhaps the biggest jump one can make weight wise, especially once the common weight was closer to 220 or whatever one picks out.

    Gomez was a bit unfortunate to cop two such great fighters in his attempt to move up. Sanchez was amazing and was also very very hard for Gomez stylistically.

    Nelson was in the midst of a 7 year undefeated streak and is imo an absolute great. I also think Gomez, despite not even being 30 was well into decline when he fought Azumah.
     
  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    My basis is watching him fight. I don't understand how you can conclude he was better at 205 pounds.

    Anyone in the world can gain weight effectively. The only question is how much of what makes him great does he then lose.
     
  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Watching Spinks on film, there's no way he was better at 200 pounds.

    Of course he was better at 175 and if course he needed to gain weight to take on Holmes. The whole thread is just me musing out loud.
     
  5. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    You'd really have to watch a 200 pound Spinks vs light heavyweights to judge empirically i think. He was never going to be anything like the fighter he was at 175 fighting the big boys.
     
  6. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    We judge who is better p4p men from different weight classes all the time.

    Was Hatton actually better at 140 or is it just the opposition that was the issue?
     
  7. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Maybe some of us aren't on the same wavelength.

    Do you think the 200 pound Spinks that beat Holmes would be as effective or more so against his 175 opponents than the 175 version?

    Noway on mother earth would i claim Spinks was a better P4P fighter at heavyweight than he was at 175. He was one of the greatest light heavyweights ever but was never going to come close to that at Heavy.
     
  8. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Agree with every word here.
     
  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    And that right there is the crux isn't it. Despite not being as good p4p as he was, he became a better fighting machine for taking on his opposition.

    He sacrificed some of his attributes to gain bulk which led to him overall being better despite becoming an inferior version of himself.
     
  10. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    We are all on the same page now i reckon, phew :D
     
  11. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    We spent a good number of posts saying the same thing to each other in different words :lol:
     
  12. thanosone

    thanosone Love Your Brother Man Full Member

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    Stupidest question ever.
     
  13. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    Who do you think wins?

    A 147 pound Hearns vs a 175 pound Hearns?

    A 122 pound Pacquiao vs a 145 pound Pacquiao?

    A 175 pound Spinks vs a 200 pound Spinks?

    A 130 pound Mayweather vs a 147 pound Mayweather?

    The answer to a lot of questions like this is the bigger version of the same man would probably beat the smaller version of the same man. Despite the fact that the smaller versions of the same men are better in a p4p sense than the bigger versions.

    Weight alone is enough to make you a better fighter in an absolute sense, but not a relative sense. And since boxing (besides HW) is a weight handicap sport what matters is how good you are relative to guys you're own size (pound for pound).
     
  14. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    Agreed I also think guys cut weight because if bulk up beyond your natural size you fight guys who are naturally bigger than you. And despite the weight being the same you're not really "bigger".
     
  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Totally agree. Hopefully he gets it!