Why did sub-190lb heavyweights disappear after Marciano's era?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, Jun 9, 2017.


  1. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    The majority of Rocky Marciano's 49 victories were over men who weighed 190 pounds or less. A substantial percentage of Joe Louis' fights were also against sub-190lb men (42%). In contrast, Patterson (at heavyweight), Liston, and Ali each faced far lower percentages of men that small (approx. 20-25% each). This shift occurred decades before the creation of the cruiser-weight division. What happened? Did the fighters who otherwise would have fought at 175-190lbs start cutting weight? Bulking up? Fade away from the sport? Or were they just less able to get fights with top up-and-comers, contenders, and champions?
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2017
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  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I would suggest that the top ten of Marciano's time were small compared to many previous eras.

    There were quite a lot of big heavyweights in the 20s and 30s for example.

    Bulking up systematically seems to have been pioneered by Michael Spinks for the Holmes fight.

    I get the idea that the average size of the top ten stepped up a little bit in the 70s and 80s anyway.
     
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  3. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Perhaps, but Louis also faced his share of small heavyweights, and several of the ranked 1930s heavies also fought between 175 and 190 (Loughran, Walker, Tully Griffiths, etc.).
     
  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    The HW division has no cap.

    As those who compete in that division got bigger, those under 190 had to give away more and more weight.

    Combine that with the increased prestige of the LHW title and suddenly a good alternative has arised.

    Tomasz Adamek used to weigh under 190, once he decided to move to CW even he didn't weigh under 190 any more.
     
  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Fighters like that will always penetrate the heavyweight rankings, but they have more options for bulking up, and sweating down today.

    From the 1920s to the 1950s, we have the same kind of light heavyweight penetrating the rankings.

    We are looking at a man who typically weights 185-190 lbs. at heavyweight, or in a catchweigth fight, but can get under 175 is on a same day weight in.
     
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  6. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Probably started eating more typically. In Marciano's era, guys were coming out of the WW2 era where people used ration stamps and didn't eat as much. After the war was over they still had that mentality and probably didn't eat as much therefore weren't that big but gradually they moved away from that type of thought.

    That's my guess anyway. None of that is based upon anything I have read aside from the ration stamps part and common sense.
     
  7. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    In the Marciano era champions still roughly met ideal weight for their height. Even up to George Foreman (the first time) taller champs still were within ideal maximum weight for their height. I don't think it was deliberate, I just think traditional training made it that way.

    Of course, a lot of things in pro sports have changed in 40 years or so.
     
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  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Speaking on behalf of Perry and Janitor without their permission, McDonald's and their advertising really took shortly after Marciano retired. That explains it!

    Speaking for myself, nutrition and an increase in population happened over the course of time. The next generation has been bigger than the previous generation since 1900 in the USA
     
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  9. The Kentucky Cobra

    The Kentucky Cobra Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    It's not just a question of muscle and fat. Men growing up after Great Depression were better fed and when you are better fed throughout the duration of your lifespan, you have denser bone structure as you mature.

    That's why you see very muscular fighters from that era that look like they should be heavier than they are.

    [url]http://www.phillyboxinghistory.com/photos/images/johnsonlouistraining.jpg[/url]
     
  10. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    They lost the book of magical techniques and incantations.
     
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  11. richdanahuff

    richdanahuff Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This content is protected
     
  12. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Interesting theory. Have you come across any sources tying nutrition to bone density to increased weight in modern athletes?
     
  13. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Did the LHW title become more prestigious in the late 1950s/ early 1960s?
     
  14. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    And what about the men who would have been light heavyweights in previous generations but were instead pushed into the 175-190 range by nutrition-fueled bone density gains?
     
  15. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    More black guys and Russians/Eastern Euros