Why did Sugar Ray Leonard fight Terry Norris?

He would not fight LaLonde, a limited light heavyweight unless Donny dropped to 168, a weight far below his natural, For the money LaLonde did it, faded badly and was crushed. Hearns was long faded and looked terrible in barely surviving Kitchen. Duran while ancient did beat Barkley but it was stylewise a very predictable matchup in Rays favor.

 

He wanted Lalonde at 168 to win two belts in one fight, not to weight-drain him. Donny weighed 165 two years before and never more than 173 1/4 between that fight at coming in at 167 for Leonard. He did not fade — in fact he had Leonard hurt badly in the very round where Ray lashed back and stopped him.

As noted elsewhere on this thread, Leonard-Hearns was made before Hearns-Kinchen … it’s mentioned on the Hearns-Kinchen broadcast (but Hearns had to win that fight … so if he’d have been so faded that he lost to Kinchen there would have been no rematch with Leonard).

Duran was coming off a great performance against Barkley. Kind of funny that Duran, who had beaten Leonard by fighting much as he did against Barkley, is now a bad style matchup against Leonard, haha. Duran’s style didn’t change — Leonard just didn’t elect to stand and play rock-em sock-em robots with him.

 

Ray had five fights in his return to the ring.

He ‘cherry picked’ four Hall of Famers and a light heavyweight (while Ray is a natural welter) who knocked him down and was ahead on two cards when Ray stopped him.

As you said, too bad more guys today don’t cherry-pick like that, lol.

 

I'm sure the Duran rematch was'nt signed just two weeks after Montreal.
Leonard told Mike Trainer, "Offer whatever it takes so Duran accepts the fight for November, just 5 months after the first fight.
Thats exactly how it was handled, Duran did'nt want the fight so soon but they offered money he never dreamed of making and so he took it.
Of course its Duran's fault for taking the fight when he did and it was his fault for not being in the shape he was the first go around.
The point I'm making is that by Leonard's own admission, that was'nt the same Duran he beat in New Orleans, and so we rate the win accordingly.

 

Well that's not what he said here.

"That had the most bearing on my decision to go ahead with a Hagler fight. I felt he was at a point that he didn't have that same fire in his body or in his heart. He wasn't the same guy."

So again there's conflicting quotes i guess its down to your own personal opinion how you see it.

 

And it wasn’t the same Leonard — it was one who was determined to fight Duran on his terms and make it a boxing match.

I’m sure you dock Duran’s first win accordingly?

 

Correct, Leonard circled and ran around a Duran who was nowhere near as quick, fast, or ferocious as he had been in Montreal.
I would think it would be easier for Leonard to be able to run a track meet around a Duran who's nowhere near the physical shape he was in Montreal. You dont have to take it from me, Leonard alluded to that fact.

 

I gave credit to Leonard for beating Hagler it was a very good win, but i still think Leonard's decision to fight Hagler was that in his own mind he thought Hagler had slowed down. He also made sure he had everything in his favour regarding having the fight being 12 rounds, and the ring also being larger. But that's also Hagler's fault for allowing that to happen, i guess Hagler also had too much of an ego thinking he'd beat Leonard easily hence the way he started the first 4 rounds. Don't get me wrong i'm not trying to discredit Leonard's win over Hagler, i'm just saying i think Leonard was more of an opportunist in his 2nd career. But fair play to him for out smarting Hagler.

I do think Hearns getting KO'ed by Barkley, and looking bad against Kinchen did influence Leonard's decision to fighting Hearns. I truly believe Leonard thought Hearns was a shot fighter with a suspect chin, and he'd be able to walk him down and KO him. Leonard was wrong and i think the public were wrong aswell, because i think everyone assumed Hearns was maybe finished but he proved he had more left in the tank that everyone thought.

I know what your saying that Hearns is Hearns and how can that be a cherry pick, i wouldn't go as far to say it was a cherry pick. But i do think Leonard saw an opportunity that Hearns had looked vulnerable and beatable, so Leonard being the opportunist took the fight based on that.

I never dismissed anything he said all i did was quote a direct quote from Leonard, saying he thought Hagler had slowed down. And that had influenced his decision into taking the fight. It's up to you what quotes you want to believe or take with a grain of salt, my personal opinion is that Leonard was opportunist in his 2nd career.

 

1. The 12-round thing is a myth: Hagler’s last scheduled 15-round fight was 2 1/2 years earlier vs. Hamsho. Wonder why nobody brings that up for his fights vs. Hearns (12) and Mugabi (12)? It wasn’t an issue for Hagler in those fights and 15-rounders were being phased out.

A negotiation is just that. Hagler wanted more money — he made $20M to Ray’s $12M. Ray wanted a bigger ring. Middleweights have long been 10- or 8-ounce gloves … does anyone know for sure if any of Marvin’s previous title fights were fought in 10s? Both got what they wanted, which is how negotiation works.

2. If Ray’s wanting to fight Hearns had anything to do with his performance against Kinchen, then why was the fight signed BEFORE the Kinchen fight? As noted elsewhere on this thread, it was even mentioned on the Hearns-Kinchen broadcast.

3. You quoted Ray saying he thought he could beat Hagler and that he thought Marvin had lost some fire in his belly, not that he had slowed down. Two different things — one is motivation (tell me Marvin wasn’t motivated for Ray, haha), the other is slipping physically. The first can be replenished (Ray actually retired after the Kevin Howard fight just for that reason, he didn’t feel motivated anymore, but he got that back when he fought Marvin), the first not so much.

 

Great post and I agree why Leonard chose Norris who was known to not have the best chin.Bqackfired pretty bad though.

 

Well that's what i've heard in documentaries that Leonard was adamant on the fight being 12 rounds, i wasn't born during that era so i'm just going by that.

I didn't know that but i guess you could also say Hearns getting KO'ed by Barkley aswell.

Well i've heard both TBH if i recall in Hagler/Leonard Legendary nights ? i believe something along these lines were said "Leonard had been at ringside and for Hagler/Mugabi and he thought Hagler had slowed down" or words to that effect. As i said though you can make your own decision on how you view the situation.

As i said i'm not discrediting Leonard's victory over Hagler, all i'm saying is that i think Leonard saw something in Hagler/Mugabi fight. And Leonard being the opportunist thought it was the perfect time to fight him.

 

I think Ray Leonard knew, as everyone did, that Hagler wasn’t going to be around much longer … so if they were going to make the fight time was running short.

As for 12 rounds, that’s a matter of fact easy to look up how long it had been since he had a fight scheduled for 15 rounds. There’s nothing to debate there.

Marvin took 109 days from the offer to acceptance. He wouldn’t even call the Petronellis back. That’s basically 4 months. So yeah, Ray saw that Marvin didn’t have the same fire in his belly, the same destruct-and-destroy, bring-me-the-next-victim mentality. He’d run out of challenges and things to prove so he was either going to retire or he’d decide to stick around for the biggest fight of his life, the biggest payday of his life, and to fight the one guy he had wanted to fight.

Marvin himself said: “It’s hard to get up and do roadwork at 5 a.m. when you’re sleeping in silk pajamas.”

But Ray was not suspended in time. He was getting older every day that Hagler was. He was accumulating more ring rust. He was not getting faster, not getting sharper, not getting better in any way. People act like he hit the stop button on time for himself while Marvin was getting older — like he was cryonically frozen to preserve himself. He was older than Marvin by 2 years.

Leonard stepped into a ring with a guy who was still considered P4P best by many with no tuneup and only one fight in the previous five years and won. That seems to me to be a pretty remarkable accomplishment.

 

There isn't just one linear way of looking at Leonard's career and perspective as a whole. As much as I dislike Leonard personally, the pre-retirement SRL didn't duck any challenges. He was fighting way above the norm of developmental opponents coming up and never showed any strategic "fear" when it came to who he fought before the detached retina. Afterwards? Yeah. maybe so, and understandably so if he did. I would suspect that he did not see Terry Norris as a giant hill to climb and as a flawed opponent at that point and also had some slightly elevated conception of what he himself had left in the tank. As was said in this thread, fighters see themselves as they were and not as they are in present time. Maybe we all do.

 

LaLonde actually said himself that the weight was no problem, but, as I wrote, it was a silly business. It should jave been at LHW.

The Hearns fight was, as I wrote, made before the Kinchen fight.

And why never, ever a mention from the detractors that Leonard was no spring chicken? He partied away his best years in retirememt and was well into his 30's. So, yes, after Hagler he didn't face the very best out the (maybe with the exception of Norris, who possibly was the best at 154), but still relevant opponents.

 

Your comment right here is what i'm basically saying TBH, i'm not saying Leonard didn't fight good opponents. It was more that i think he picked the right time to maybe fight a few of them, being opportunist i think he was in his 2nd career atleast, kind of like what Mayweather did with a few of his opponents.

But i'm not discrediting Leonard for his victory over Hagler, and i'm certainly not saying he isn't an ATG.