Why did The Greatest lose to basically a one-armed fighter?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by ChrisPontius, Sep 27, 2007.

  1. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    19,404
    Likes Received:
    278
    I know this sounds a bit bold, but really, pretty much all Frazier landed in FOTC is left hooks, left hooks, left hooks.....

    Sure, he mixed in some other punches, a few uppercuts, some right hands, but it was always the left hook that was thrown with power, dedication and precision and it was always the left hook that did the damage.

    Considering how great a boxer Ali was, fast hands, incredible fast feet, ring smarts, long punches, great jab, uppercuts, who could imagine him losing to basically a one-armed fighter??
     
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    71,522
    Likes Received:
    27,094
    Simple really.

    The one arm was the right arm to get the job done

    Ali's main technical vulnerability was to a left hook which was Fraziers forte.

    The other greatest (Louis) lost to a fighter who relied heavily on his overhand right because that was the punch that he was most vulnerable to.
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Messages:
    112,759
    Likes Received:
    47,604
    Well punching is only a part of the problem. Delivery is also an issue.

    Frazier is able to deliver these punches relentlessly due to an extraordinary workrate and an enormouse heart. He is there to be hit but in hitting him you risk being hit - and Frazier can get busy.

    As you've observed, Frazier did mix it and was far from "one-armed".

    But the basic answer to your question as far as I can see are the physical attributes that he owned allowed him to pressure pressure pressure a fighter that didn't particularly enjoy pressure.

    No-one would.
     
  4. Shake

    Shake Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2007
    Messages:
    5,633
    Likes Received:
    55
    If the one-armed fighter has nearly unlimited stamina and a willingness to take any punch in order to land, he'll probably land it with regularity unless you have the power to stop him in his tracks.

    You're talking about Joe Frazier here. Give the man his respect.

    I personally also think Ali took that fight too soon. He took too big fights too soon without sufficient recovery time. His coordination and ring-comfort were not optimal, and it had to be to beat Joe Frazier.
     
  5. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2004
    Messages:
    12,059
    Likes Received:
    3,559
    It was the greatest performance by a one-armed man since Spencer Tracy beat up Lee Marvin AND Ernest Borgnine in Bad Day At Black Rock. :good
     
  6. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Messages:
    18,216
    Likes Received:
    14,019
    That's nothing compared to this gentleman:

    This content is protected
     
  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    55,255
    Likes Received:
    10,344
    Swarmers usually have the advantage over pure boxing types....especially if the boxer has less stamina than the swarmer. Frazier simply wore a brash Ali out. When Ali took breaks in the corners and the ropes, Frazier went to work with those hooks. Ali also had a low guard, and had a tendency to be “ nailed " by hooks. Frazier simply matched up well with Ali.

    If Ali had learned how to clinch prior to the 1971 fight, the result could have been different. After the first fight, Ali learned how to tie Frazier up, mostly with illegal clinching behind the head.
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    97,655
    Likes Received:
    28,952
    Not that simple why didnt Baer ko Louis ,he had a far harder overhand right than Schmeling,Frazier beat Ali with constant pressure,he was willing as Ali said to"pay any price", both of them left a bit of themselves i n that ring,but Fraziers "bit" was bigger. Jose Torres said in his book Sting Like a Bee,Ali in his comeback had been sparring ,lying constantly on the ropes,it had become a habit,it was the wrong place to be against Frazier
    ,,Ali was really rocked in the 11th I thought he might go down,and how did he get up from that hook in the 15th? Fraziers shining hour,he was never the same again.Ali said "if he beats me Ill crawl across the ring and kiss his feet ,at the fights close Frazier remembered it and paying respect to Ali said unprompted"aint nobody got to do no crawlin tonight".
     
  9. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Messages:
    42,723
    Likes Received:
    264
    1 Amazing Arm is better than 2 Average Arms
     
  10. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    10,774
    Likes Received:
    310
    Conteh bringing back memories! Great movie. Robert Ryan plays the best racist ******* in the history of cinema. Have you seen Crossfire? Odds Against Tomorrow? Clash By Night? I know you've seen the Set-Up.

    Ryan boxed in college and had a 5-0 record with 3 KOs...
     
  11. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2004
    Messages:
    23,665
    Likes Received:
    2,146
    Ali had a problem with the left hook, he was dumped by Cooper and Frazier, probery the 2 best lefthookers he fought,Patterson and Moore caught him a few times and Doug Jones also. If you feinted a left vs Ali he leaned his head back and then fired a hook you would catch him, Howard Davis jr got caught the same way
     
  12. MagnificentMatt

    MagnificentMatt Beterbiev literally kills Plant and McCumby 2v1 Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2006
    Messages:
    4,476
    Likes Received:
    2,083
    One-eyed as well...

    That one armed fighter was aslo extremely slick, which Ali didnt seem to like, he didnt like Left hooks either, so mix em up and look what you got.
     
  13. JimboDs

    JimboDs So-called expert Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2007
    Messages:
    244
    Likes Received:
    0
    When fighting punchers, boxers tend to favor moving away from the strong hand. A great left hook is a puncher's best friend against a boxer. You get quicker delivery and it's generally easier to land. It makes it difficult for the boxer to move laterally if you can keep the pressure up the way Frazier did because Ali was not as comfortable moving to his left as he was to his right.

    Frazier also correctly took advantage of the height disparity between him and by staying low and springing up with left hooks to counter when Ali punched down with his right.

    Finally, it was not just Frazier's left hook, but his elusiveness and athleticism that helped him beat Ali. He also had sick conditioning to keep the pressure on for 15 rounds.
     
  14. Marciano Frazier

    Marciano Frazier Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,935
    Likes Received:
    56
    A somewhat one-armed fighter who had seemingly almost-limitless stamina, an impressive workrate, a non-stop pressure style, fast hands, good head movement, and a thunderously powerful hook? Yes, I can see a guy like that beating a lot of people, particularly ones whose greatest stylistic difficulties are with small, aggressive guys and whose biggest defensive vulnerabilities are to left hooks.
     
  15. achillesthegreat

    achillesthegreat FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    Messages:
    37,070
    Likes Received:
    29
    Calling Frazier a one armed fight is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

    Frazier could throw every text book punch with his right hand and did so.

    Frazier neglected the jab BUT he still had a jab.