Why did USADA stop blood testing Floyd & Shane 18 days prior to their fight?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by caneman, Dec 2, 2010.


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  1. eze

    eze Everybody Know Me Full Member

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  2. pejevan

    pejevan inmate No. 1363917 Full Member

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    The e-mail alone tells you something if it is really from Keith Kizer.

    There is no standardized acceptable level of Lidocaine in the drug. Leave it to a licensed doctor? WTF is that? It becomes a subjective issue that the doctor determines whether it is high or low? 100 ng/liter - high or low? It must be high if I can put a needle through his hand?

    Testing for it then is bull**** if that is the case. it is a show, a facade.

    As I have already suspected, there is no standardized testing for Lidocaine!

    Standardized simply means that at certain level of drugs detected, which is a positive and which is negative. Other PEDS, even miniscule levels like the one detected in Alberto Contador's blood were deemed positive. But in the Lidocaine issue, it becomes a decision by the licensed doctor.
     
  3. pejevan

    pejevan inmate No. 1363917 Full Member

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    They definitely follow WADA protocol but WADA does not tests for lidocaine. So do you mean they deviated from WADA at the same time?

    Rememerr WADA, or its US arms, which is the USADA does not own a single laboratory but accredits laboratories to run their tests. Even Pac's blood which was taken in the Philippines, has to be sent to indonesia because that is where the regional laboratory was accredited. These laboratories basically designed their testing based on the WADA lists of banned substances. And even the testing protocols has to be accredited - meaning that for certain drugs, there are only handful of accepted , standardized (reproducible, or repeatable if done by another laboratory), proven protocol to tests it.

    By looking at your correspondence, it seems that even the tests is not standardized.
     
  4. eze

    eze Everybody Know Me Full Member

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    They are allowed to follow WADA's protocol and also test for other things.

    They are not bound to only test whats on WADA's list. They are a commission. WADA's list is open the public. It's not like WADA is running the NSAC.
     
  5. pejevan

    pejevan inmate No. 1363917 Full Member

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    the problem with that is drugs not isted by the WADA are not standardized.

    Like Lidocaine, some state commissions allow it, others don't. The mere fact that these state commissions don't actually look each other eye to eye - i.e. Margarito was denied by California commission but okayed by Texas commission tells you that there is no way in hell that even if for the sake of argument, they tests it, there is no way to prosecute or deny any fighter a fight because of it.

    Commissions are like fiefdoms, who pride themselves for being independent and free from intervention by other state commissions. To come up with a tests that becomes universal based on the commissions stand is impossible because that is the only way that the testing of this drug has a fang. You can not use USADA or WADA because they don't tests xylocaine too. But if only NSAC tests it, considering that NSAC is one of the states that do not consider Xylociane illegal.


    There are really contradicting facts you presented that still bothers me.

    First : WADA does not consider Lidocaine a PEDS yet they tests it through an independent laboratory.

    Second : NSAC follows WADA or WADA's lists but test Xylocaine on top of that, when NSAC is one of the sports commission that does not consider Xylocaine illegal... What for? ..... Remember that almost all Floyd's fights are in their backyard.

    Third : It is well known that USADA or WADA accredited laboratories pattern their drug testing on WADA list (commonsense simply because why would you devote research money on drugs that the biggest consumer - the IOC (international Olympics Committee) would not be testing, yet do Lidocaine testing.

    Here is an interesting reading about USADA regarding its funding :

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    Read it and you will have a better understanding about the machination within the agency.
     
  6. eze

    eze Everybody Know Me Full Member

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    Lidocaine is legal when permitted. If a fighter uses it to lets say completely numb his hand or use it without the permission of the NSAC. It's illegal.
     
  7. pejevan

    pejevan inmate No. 1363917 Full Member

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    So you have to ask permission to legalize it?

    Is it that dumb - a drug could both be illegal and legal depending if you ask permission? Is that in the NSAC or by some clerk who jsut happened to type whatever fancies him.

    "SOUNDS like he got an ok due to it being low level", "low level shot MAY be OK depending on the situation..I LEAVE THE DECISION to the experienced doctor" do not exactly sound like he was sure what he was saying or authoritative at all. He is supposed to be Kizer, and simple matters like that questions are not answered with MAY, MAYBE.
     
  8. eze

    eze Everybody Know Me Full Member

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    That was Keith Kizer.

    Im assuming if a fighter has some bruised knuckles or injury they authorize it.
     
  9. maracho

    maracho Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Like I said earlier, it wouldn’t be that hard to corrupt the few bigwigs in charge. USADA is the court and Tygart is the arbitrator. Don Catlin is basically still in charge of the biggest labs but his private lab is in hot competition to come up with the latest and greatest detecting devises which cost a pretty penny. "Catlin estimates that it cost as much as $500,000 for his team to develop a test for the BALCO steroid THG. Machines start at $80,000. To thoroughly vet one athlete once can run up to $2,000."

    Catlin and Tygart have a definite bias so Manny Pac needs to be very careful. Just look at the USADA cover ups and controversies such as with Marion Jones, Trevor Graham, Lance Armstrong to name just a few. Speaking of Lance Armstrong, look how Wada's Dick Pound and USADA's Travis Tygart and Los Angeles lawyer Jeff Novitzky teamed up. Jeff Novitzky is the lawyer that investigated Mosley's use of steroids against Oscar. To me this is the real reason that Shane left GBP because Oscar is still mad and has recently tried to overturn the fight's decision.
    http://outsideonline.com/adventure/travel-ta-201010-jeff-novitzky-doping-sidwcmdev_151848.html
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/more/09/28/mosley/index.html?eref=mostpop
    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/m...oscar_de_la_hoya_could_sue_to_ko_sugar_s.html

    Time and time again Pound and Tygart have come out either accusing or defending athletes based on what seems to be biased and passionate opinion rather than science, which IMO undermines these agency's moral and scientific authority. This is especially true in the case of their agreeing with the slanderous accusations by GBP and team Mayweather against Manny Pacquiao. How can any athlete have any confidence that Pound will not believe them innocent until proven guilty?

    Don Catlin tries to get company support from Lance Armstrong--finances part of build-up and break-up http://grg51.typepad.com/steroid_na...ks-out-of-don-catlin-antidoping-protocol.html

    Golden Boy's main partner, the Anschutz corporation (AEG) has had big time business associations with USADA and Tygart in the past.
    http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=3397

    Not just cycling and boxing but Don Catlin and AEG must also be affiliated in horse racing since Catlin tests horses for Peds and AEG owns so many race stadiums
     
  10. maracho

    maracho Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This extreme bias on the part of USADA, WADA and promoters etc... is now even more clearly tied in with the commissions. The commissions wont standardize because the they want control over who they protect and who they persecute. The perfect example is with Oscar nemesis, Antonio Margarito when they basically told him, "go ahead and take the hydoxicut and go ahead and use the inserts; we will let you know after you apply them or after the fight if you are guilty or not".
     
  11. pejevan

    pejevan inmate No. 1363917 Full Member

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    I think you got the picture right!

    USADA is basically run by bureaucrats who are exactly have vested and conflict of interest sometimes. These bureaucrats owe their positions to certain officals, organizations.

    USADA is not exactly wothout any controversies. Infact, it is one of the most controversial sports organization ever, especially with their handling of the PEDS issue.
     
  12. bald_head_slick

    bald_head_slick Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It couldn't be that the NSAC can't force promoters to pay for testing that might cost more than the actual purses of the fighters? No way! :roll:
     
  13. maracho

    maracho Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I am not sure what you mean but why would NSAC need to force promoters to pay anyone? Paying people off is their main tool.
     
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