Why Did Wilder give Fury a title shot if he thought he was a cheater

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Mister Pugilist, Jan 24, 2023.

  1. Mister Pugilist

    Mister Pugilist Member Full Member

    Apr 24, 2022
    He talks about Fury’s cocaine and PED issues but why give him a title shot in 2018 then. You had that prior knowledge so if you thought he was a cheater through and through why fight him. Also if you thought he cheated with egg weights (which would be assault) why fight him a 3rd time. Like. None of this makes logical sense to me
  2. miniq

    miniq Big Stiff Idiot banned Full Member

    Oct 23, 2011
    dont worry about it. The midget who chinned AJ (not usyk) will finish wilder off
  3. Finkel

    Finkel Well-Known Member Full Member

    Feb 10, 2020
    First fight, he didn't really care.
    Stiverne was popped for PEDs, he fought him a second time. Ortiz was popped, he fought him twice. The only time it mattered was when Povetkin was railed roaded and they used any excuse they could to swerve him. Wilder's team saw Fury as the easiest way to bring legitimacy to his title reign. If he won that fight, he could claim lineal status and be in a far stronger negotiating position against Joshua for undisputed.

    Third fight, pride and FOMO
    He realised he has been played like a fiddle by Fury, no longer had the title, and had seen the 120m go up in smoke. No way was he going to let Fury just ride off into the sunset and take the undisputed fight.
  4. Mister Pugilist

    Mister Pugilist Member Full Member

    Apr 24, 2022
    Sounds about right
  5. Slyk

    Slyk Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Dec 5, 2010
    In Wilder's defense, he had stopped everyone he'd faced and all that stood between him and LINEAL status was an obese coke head. Fury was completely a cherry pick. They had probably sparred at a Klitschko camp and in the back of Wilder's mind he knew exactly how good Fury was, but for fight 1 he thought that guy was dead.
    BCS8 likes this.
  6. Mr Icaman

    Mr Icaman 32-0 WBC Champ, Ring + Lineal HW Champ Full Member

    Aug 31, 2015
    Cherry pick gone wrong..
    Smokin Bert and The Long Count like this.
  7. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jul 4, 2014
    Wilder fought Fury because he thought Fury was shot from drug use, and gaining/losing 150 pounds. At this point, it was a strategy to pick opponents who were not medically fit like Ortiz (high blood pressure) Stivern (obesity) and Arreola (obesity).
    Smokin Bert and BCS8 like this.
  8. MorvidusStyle

    MorvidusStyle Well-Known Member Full Member

    Jul 11, 2017
    Wilder raises every PED red flag you can get.
    So he knew at the very least he would not be at a disadvantage.
    Wilder the lanky ectomorph's incredible lean mass gains after the first fight only confirmed that he is not a clean athlete.
    People need to stop focusing on who 'passes' tests and just use their eyes and common sense. Testing is not accurate and never has been.
    Jon Saxon and Smokin Bert like this.
  9. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jun 25, 2014
    What are you going to do?

    The boxing community is a small one. The top amateurs around the world become the top pros. They share trainers. They share sparring partners. They share gyms together. They fight each other. They fight common opponents. People talk. When a bunch of boxers accuse the same guy of cheating, he probably is, whether he's caught or not.

    (Like Joshua has been accused by everyone, but has never popped. When Joshua lost to Ruiz, Gennady Golovkin was quoted as saying: “You can look at various elements, various links, so to speak, in this chain, First of all, it was his first fight in the United States. It was his first fight at Madison Square Garden, first fight with different doping-test procedures. It will probably be a big lesson, an important lesson for Joshua to learn.")

    And while Wilder's given up weight to everyone he's faced for more than a decade, and even though all his title challengers had weight advantages over Wilder ... still half of Wilder's title challengers (and two who were signed but had to be replaced) were not only accused of being PED users but they failed one if not multiple PED tests in their careers (Arreola, Povetkin, Wawrzyk, Ortiz, Stiverne, Fury).

    When Wilder first won the WBC title, and someone he signed to fight tested positive (Povetkin, Wawrzyk), he'd get another opponent. But, at some point, you can't replace everyone who tests positive or you'll severely limit who you can fight.

    When he first signed to fight Luis Ortiz in 2017, Ortiz failed a drug test. The WBC then said Wilder had to make a mandatory against Stiverne, the same Stiverne who had failed a drug test the previous year when he signed to fight Povetkin ... which also happened to be the same year Povetkin failed PED tests before all his proposed fights the entire year ... the same year the entire Russian Olympic team was banned because of state-sponsored doping (Povetkin stood by Putin when Putin denied the accusations).

    So, after Wilder beat PED cheat Stiverne, he fought PED cheat Ortiz (not once but twice). And when Fury returned from what was basically his own self-imposed drug suspension, Wilder fought PED cheat Fury (not once, but three times).

    At this point in boxing's history, if you avoided all the drug cheats, you'd end up like Floyd Patterson fighting the guys making their pro debuts. Only, those guys are probably on PEDs, too, anyway.

    When you beat a cheater, I'm sure there is a lot of satisfaction in it for someone like Wilder. Wilder believes his all-time-great power will carry him past whatever others ingest, or how much weight they pack on, to beat him.

    After Jarrell Miller got busted THE FIRST TIME for PEDs, Wilder said: “Where do I start ? I’ve always told people about Jarrell Miller. I’ve always said certain things. I know a lot of things about a lot of fighters, because I know the people that I’ve fought. Like they tell me. I'm not a rat. I don’t go around and call names out and stuff. But I’ve been saying a lot of things. One particular time I said something about Jarrell Miller. I said, you better stop doing this, this and this. Somebody put out the video before."

    When you lose to a cheater, though, I'm sure that is infuriating.

    Giving up 40 pounds off the top should be enough of a disadvantage to have to deal with. When you feel the guy is cheating on top of that, I'm sure it's difficult to put on a happy face.

    Which is why he made the comment about Fury-Usyk "whoever cheats the hardest" will win.
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2023
  10. ConfusedGuy

    ConfusedGuy Member Full Member

    Oct 29, 2020
    Wilder defended against Fury because he had only fought 2 glorified sparring sessions in the previous few years and had ruined himself with drugs, drink and pies.
  11. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jun 25, 2014
    Wilder defended against Fury twice and challenged him once.

    He could've stopped fighting him after the first successful defense.

    And Fury is "hardly ruined." He can beat any boxer on the planet right now.
  12. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Aug 21, 2012
    Fury was in the fat farm and an ideal candidate for getting shotgunned.
  13. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jun 25, 2014
    Fury weighed less for the first fight than any of their three meetings, and he had 40-pound weight advantage over Wilder in all three fights.

    How many times was Ali outweighed by 40 pounds when he defended the title? How many times was George Foreman outweighed by 40 pounds in title fights? How about Liston? Or Marciano?

    How many times was Tyson Fury outweighed by 40 pounds in a title defense?
    Entaowed likes this.
  14. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Aug 21, 2012
    Fury had no muscle tone in the first fight, a legacy of having to drop about a metric ton of weight or he'd have been waddling around like an overstuffed penguin. You can see his power is waaay down from the second fight where he trained like he meant it.
    Entaowed likes this.
  15. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jun 25, 2014
    Yes, unlike the JACKED Fury in all his other title fights. (that's sarcasm)