Why didn’t Denver Ed Martin get a title shot vs Jeffries?

The timeline of events it like this:

26/06/1900 Ruhlin defeats Sharkey (Ruhlin becomes the leading contender)

10/08/1900 Fitzsimmons defeats Ruhlin (Fitzsimmons becomes the leading contender)

24/08/1900 Fitzsimmons defeats Sharkey (Fitzsimmons becomes the standout)

30/08/1900 Corbett defeats McCoy (Corbett now back in the mix)

24/02/1902 Martin defeats Childs for Coloured Title (Martin somwhere in the mix)

25/07/1902 Jeffries defeats Fitzsimmons, and Martin defeats Armstrong (Fitzsimmons out of the argument)

05/02/1903 Johnson defeats Martin (Martin out of the argument)

14/08/1903 Jeffries defeats Corbett (Corbett out of the argument)

I submit that after Jeffries defeated Fitzsimmons, his logical choices were Corbett and Martin.

Martin probably had the stronger stand alone case as a contender, but Corbett had the argument that he had given Jeffries a close fight previously.

So in summary Martin probably did deserve a title shot, but he was not in the position long enough to damn Jeffries for not fighting him!

 

Denver Ed Martin was one of the most skillful boxers in the heavyweight division at the time that Jim Jeffries was the world heavyweight champion. If Martin really was a contender, it was not for long because he lacked durability and was knocked out often as a result.

- Chuck Johnston

 

Denver Ed Marin's heart was never in the fight game. He seems to have been really popular among the Australian's at least. Here is an excellent article from bill Squires which puts a bit of perspective into some of the things you dont notice from simply reading records. Martin was apparantly a great joker.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/...burns martin denver &searchLimits=

 

Do you mean rated?

 

Very possibly, there again, 157lbs Fitzsimmons stopped Corbett with one body shot yet Corbett went 23 rds with Jeffries! He did the same thing to Sharkey twice ,Sailor Tom went 45rds with Jeffries without being stopped!
What was likely to happen based on their respective results should never be the bench mark for excusing a man not facing another.I think Dempsey would have taken out Wills inside 10 rds,that doesn't mean Harry shouldn't have gotten his shot does it?

 

I can't see any argument that he wasn't a top contender.

 

You can see Denver Ed joking on film. As soon as the sparring stops with Ruhlin a rubber chicken is presented. Martin can't stop laughing.

 

on the original question, nothing to explain.

Martin was a prospect who looked a comer, but simply fell apart. He only turned 21 in September of 1902. By that point he had wins over Childs, Griffin, Ferguson, and Armstrong. Yes, he was emerging as the top post-Fitzsimmons contender.

But that fall he had a spotty performance in a ND rematch with Armstrong, suffering I think 6 knockdowns. In early 1903 he lost to Jack Johnson. Armstrong then KO'd him in another rematch. Then McVea KO'd him.

Of course, Jeff would have drawn the color line against Martin, but really, I don't see any good argument that Martin should have been getting a shot before the guys who did before his career collapsed.

There have always been types like this. A strong run and then abruptly everything goes sour. Art Lasky. Lem Franklin. Mac Foster.

In Martin's case the reason in retrospect seems obvious. He was too vulnerable to a good punch.

 

I submit that after disposing of both Sharkey and Ruhlin in a few rounds ,and in the space of a fortnight in1900 there was only one man Jeffires should have fought Bob Fitzsimmons!

1900 is the time in question not 1902!

 

Yes, and that is what people seem to have thought at the time.

You could perhaps make an argument that Martin was the best of what was left, after Jeffries had seen off the challenge of Fitzsimmons.

 

"1900 is the time in question not 1902!"

I don't know what you are talking about. The original question I responded to was about Denver Ed Martin--in the title, and with an original post which mentions directly Martin's victory over Armstrong in 1902. I haven't read the entire thread. I was answering the original question.

Denver Ed Martin was a teenager in 1900. Who exactly was demanding he challenge Jeffries at that point?

 

I submit that after disposing of both Sharkey and Ruhlin in a few rounds ,and in the space of a fortnight in1900 there was only one man Jeffires should have fought Bob Fitzsimmons!

1900 is the time in question not 1902!

Ed,

McVey doesn't know what he's talking about. He's just agenda ridden and will reach for straws on this topic. Right a teenager with a glass body and jaw would last long vs. Jeffries. Hardly! At best Martin was the 4th to 6th best title contender, and he didn't stay in that spot for long. Jeffries fought #1, #2, and #3 in title shots, slowing down around 1904.

Regarding the top black fighters of the time, its clear most of the champions like Jeffries enjoyed the company of Armstrong, and like someone else said Martin was quite the joker and a welcome addition to a camp. The color line is complicated; it was partly the promoters being barriers. Most of the champions seemed to get along with their African American contemporaries of the time, except for one guy who was pretty a jerk and often in trouble.

Peter Jackson and Sam Langford were well liked by the press.

 

I'm responding to another post ,which I inadvertedly applied to you, the post was excusing Corbett being given a title shot in1900.Put your hands down lol.

 

Just came across this thread. Denver Ed Martin was a pretty fair boxer with some power and a tendency to get knocked out. His best showing was between 1899 and 1902 when he beat noted heavyweights Bob Armstrong, Klondike Haynes, Hank Griffin, Fred Russell and Sandy Ferguson. Although he beat Frank Childs for the Coloured title, Childs was 35 and really a big middleweight still able to make 165. According to reports, had their first fight gone past 6 rounds there was a high probability Frank would have knocked Martin out. In any case Jeffries made it very clear he would never defend the title against Martin or any other "coloured" man and in those days the champion decided who his opponent was going to be. Based on Martin's mediocre performances against the top black heavyweights even in winning, there is little liklihood he would have posed much trouble for Jeffries in 1902.

 

Ringrat,

I agree but there are a few footnotes. Jeffries as champion did fight Hank Griffin in a 4 round match, flooring him a few times. Had Jeffries somehow been stopped, Griffin, who was black is the next lineal champion. This shows Jeffries as champion would fight a black contender if the terms or purse were right.

Jeffries also mentioned Jack Johnson's name to the press post-Jack Munroe as a possible challenger.

The color line is complicated, but I think the money line if it got high enough trumps the color line more often than not! Had there been a 1910 Reno like purse for Johnson vs Jeffries in 1905, who knows. What fighters say change when a big purse is there, doesn't it? Burns wasn't going to fight Johnson for a small purse. But when it high a high mark, he did.

There are also reports that say Jeffries Ko'd Martin, though a detailed new report has never been found, so it's not official.