No, it isn't. He signed to fight a more deserving opponent (at that time) than Page & the reason for the fight being cancelled was not his own. Choosing to disregard those events makes any assessment of the overall situation incomplete or inaccurate. You mean the same universe where tons of other fighters have discarded titles to pursue bigger fights & received public support for doing so?
On what planet is Scott Frank, who had never beaten a contender in his life, more deserving than the #1 contender who had beaten the previous #1 contender? Timelines are everything and very few ever get it right in this particular debate. Many don't want to get it right and even after having things factually explained still stick to their fallacies. It's downright mind boggling.
And some obviously had it right a few months ago, when wanting to elevate Wilder above Holmes, but refuse to get it right now for some reason.
Timelines are important. And I'll keep it short, since "reading" and "paragraphs" are hard on some people around here. Larry Holmes was offered $1.5 million to defend his belt against anyone on NBC during their September sweeps week. He picked Frank (who wouldn't quibble over the purse) and made his money. Holmes was also offered $3.1 million to fight Marvis Frazier in November, also on NBC. The WBC wanted Holmes to fight Page, but Butch Lewis and Don King had a court date in July 1983 (it would last two and a half months) to decide Butch's lawsuit against Don King for breach of contract. If Lewis won, he got Page. If King won, he got Page. Page wasn't fighting for any world title until that was decided. TITLE BOUTS APPROVED NY Times Aug. 12, 1983 Larry Holmes , the heavyweight boxing champion, has reached an agreement with the World Boxing Council that will allow him to fight two other opponents before facing the W.B.C.'s top-ranked contender, Greg Page , in a bout that has been tentatively set for next January or February. The W.B.C. had threatened to strip Holmes of his title if he did not carry out a mandatory defense against Page, but Holmes and the W.B.C.'s president, Jose Sulaiman , resolved their differences at a meeting in San Juan, P.R., last weekend, according to Holmes. As a result, the W.B.C. will sanction two fights that Holmes has scheduled for later this year, a bout against Scott Frank on Sept. 10 and one against Marvis Frazier on Nov. 25. The day the jurors came back with a verdict, both King and Lewis were afraid they'd lose so they finally compromised. King got to promote a Page title fight, and Lewis got to co-promote his first three defenses. Promoters in Accord NY Times October 1, 1983 Just minutes after a jury had reached a verdict following a 10-week trial in the dispute between Don King and Butch Lewis over their rival contracts with Greg Page, the top-ranked heavyweight contender, King and Lewis reached an out-of-court settlement Thursday night. The agreement recognizes the King contract but requires him to pay Lewis $200,000. Under the terms, which were accepted by Justice Edward J. Greenfield in State Supreme Court in Manhattan, King will also accept Lewis as a one-third co-promoter of Page's first three title defenses should he win the championship. Justice Greenfield said that if King and Lewis could not come to terms on a contract for their joint promotions, he would unseal the verdict and impose it. After stopping Marvis, Holmes was offered (and accepted) a $3 million signing bonus and signed for an even larger purse if he agreed to fight Gerrie Coetzee, the WBA heavyweight champion. Holmes was only offered $2.55 million to defend against Page. He said he'd fight Page, but wanted more than that. (He made more fighting Marvis Frazier ... and he'd make more in a signing bonus for the Coetzee fight ... with a fight purse later on top of that.) Holmes vs. the WBC Nov. 29, 1983 Larry Holmes made a triumphant return yesterday to his home in Easton, Pa., but he was still sparring with the World Boxing Council over its insistence that he defend his heavyweight title next against Greg Page instead of Gerrie Coetzee . ''I don't want them to try to dictate to me two days after the fight,'' he said, referring to his first-round knockout of Marvis Frazier on Friday in Las Vegas, Nev. ''I'm semi-retired,'' said the 34-year-old Holmes. ''If the Coetzee fight doesn't come, I'll retire in March. If I don't fight Coetzee, I'll quit.'' Holmes was smarting over reports from Bangkok, Thailand, that the W.B.C. president, Jose Sulaiman , had threatened to strip him of the title if he should fight Coetzee before Page. Holmes had agreed to meet the top-ranked Page in a mandatory title defense in February or March but now says that he can earn much more than the $2.55 million offered for that bout by facing Coetzee, the World Boxing Association champion. ''I don't like to be threatened or told what to do,'' said Holmes, who said he was thinking about relinquishing the W.B.C. title and accepting recognition instead from the International Boxing Association. He opted for the signing bonus and Coetzee. That's the timeline.
Agreed. Now if we could just get some to read "those facts" and not throw a tantrum when they're wrong ... and respond by trying to change the focus and derail threads with "predictions" 40 years later they didn't like ... this place would be nicer to visit.
Just one little detail. Holmes was not asked to fight Marvis Frazier. He called Marvis’ Dad on the phone, offered his son a fight and dictated most of the terms including the purse. And of course not one person in the Milky Way considered this match a title fight
I think that Lewis-King trial was the one mentioned in Black Lights where King laid out how he had a monopoly and controlled all the top 10 fighters in the heavyweight division.
The NY Times reported Marvis' purse was anywhere from $700,000 to $1 million. Which would mean Frazier got more than Page and Witherspoon's purses combined for their vacant title fight. Page's purse was $400,000. Witherspoon's was $250,000. (Although neither made nearly that.)
Be that as it may, Marvis Frazier was not an opponent who was selected FOR Holmes. He was hand picked BY Holmes
Except for Ring Magazine and boxing writers all over the world. LAS VEGAS, Nev. -- The promoters of the Nov. 25 Larry Holmes-Marvis Frazier heavyweight fight said Friday the bout is for the championship, despite the refusal of the World Boxing Council to sanction the event as a title confrontation. 'We are promoting a world heavyweight championship fight without qualification,' said a joint statement from Caesars Palace Robert Andreoli and Muhammad, promoters of the bout. 'Throughout history, whenever the heavyweight champion has stepped into the ring, his title has always been on the line. It won't be any different on Friday. The International Boxing Writers Association and Ring Magazine recognize our fight as a world title fight.' The statement continued: 'The people recognize Larry Holmes as the heavyweight champion of the world. Larry Holmes has met and defended every heavyweight challenger enroute to a perfect 44-0 record. He has been an active fighting champion and has proven himself as the best heavyweight in the world beyond all doubts.' 'The world title fight, sanctioned by history and the people of the world, will be one of the hotly-contested ring wars of the year,' concluded the promoters. The WBC has refused to sanction the bout because Frazier, son of former heavyweight champion Joe Frazier, is not currently ranked among the top 10 challengers for Holmes' title.
Didn't he beat Weaver and Witherspoon? And you really believe his status as champ was questionable because he didn't fight Dokes ? Holmes was a great champion and if that's the best you have to try and discredit him, then you're welcome to your view but I don't share it.
Not every fight can be against the very best around.. Ali had his weaker bouts, it's not unreasonable.
He proliferated titles for something you are calling "unification" which would have unified nothing and didn't even happen. You have no ground to stand on, here.
Rematches as I've been saying aren't illegal. They are an historic part of boxing. Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano gave immediate rematches to Joe Walcott after tough battles to prove beyond doubt who was champ. Marciano also gave Ezzard Charles an immediate rematch after a tough scrap. Bowe and Holyfield fought a series to sort each other out. Bear in mind the initial victor doesn't always win the rematch, there are countless examples of tough fights turned around next time out. Weaver and Witherspoon were top 5 fighters for ages. I said nothing about his status as champ being in doubt because he didn't fight Dokes. The problem i and many others have is the cherry picking post Cooney. There's 9 defenses post Cooney and just one single top 5 fighter in them and that guy was top 5 for 5 minutes. It's not to try and discredit him it's to provide balance. It's an extremely valid criticism especially give he told the world he was going to take an easy run home. That's what we do in here, we dissect records and compare fighters, especially greats which Holmes obviously is. If you think dodging top 5 fighters for 8 of your last 9 defenses is dandy and fine then you're welcome to your view as well.
