Why Didn't Bert Gilroy Fight For The British Title?

Discussion in 'British Boxing Forum' started by Liston73, Jun 21, 2022.

  1. Liston73

    Liston73 Active Member Full Member

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    After beating GInger Sadd in a final eliminator for the British Middle weight title on the 26th March 1940 Bert Gilroy next fought on 28th June 1941 against Jock McCusker?
    Why so long between fights?
    Why wasn't he fighting for the British title?
    Why did he never fight for the British middleweight title?
    What went wrong?
     
  2. thistle

    thistle Boxing Addict Full Member

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    * - here is a link to Bert's career -
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    below is a series of Links to the ACTUAL 1940s Contemporary Newspaper Reports, Ratings and all such info, "the Ring" Magazine, "Boxing News", "British Newspapers" and so on...

    * here is a link to "the RATINGS" for then -
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    - the RATINGS CHART 1938 - 49...



    * here is a link to the 5 (6) Robbed Decisions -
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    * here is a link to the Board 'Passing' Bert Over in 42, while Bert is Still No.1 and Still undefeated 5 years at that point and then in 1944 Dropping him as Title Challenger altogether -
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    * here is a link to either side of 600 REPORTS -
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    - here is Bert Gilroy's Career Timeline of Status & Events...

    Bert's 1st Ratings/Rankings beginning in 1937 for Scottish Titles,
    • Bert's 6 year, 42 fight Winning streaking beginning here in 1937
    • Bert becoming Scottish Champion in - 1938 and maintaining that Championship status at 2 weights (arguably 3), until 1950
    • Bert becoming World Classed and No.3 in the UK in - 1938, and remaining world classed until 1949
    • Bert becoming No.1 - 1939 in the UK and basically staying No.1 until 1948
    • Bert becoming Official British Middleweight Contender - 1940 and reported on and favoured as such until 1945
    • Bert being sidestepped and Ernie Roderick becoming Official Challenger and getting a 3 Year BYE for the Middleweight Title in 1942 and sustained until 1945
    • Bert becoming Official Contender for Mill's L-HW Title in -1944/45 and remaining so until 1948
    • Bert being PASSED Over while Still Undefeated and Still No.1 Contender in 1942 and DROPPED Outright as Middleweight Contender in 1944
    • Bert's FIVE Robbed Decisions - Dempster, Sadd (1), O'Connor 3, Hawkins and Shaw
    • Bert's 5 Questionable Fights (McCleave (1 & 2), Mills, Woodcock (1), Cerdan, in either Robbery, Circumstances in the fight, and/or in the Negotiations leading up to the fight
    • Bert being Avoided & Ducked, REPORTED on by Boxing Writers...
    • Mills ALREADY in Negotiation's to Fight Joe Louis before meeting Bert, Hawkins Already Selected as Official Challenger for Middleweight Title before meeting Bert...
    there you go Sam, enjoy the study & research.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2022
  3. Liston73

    Liston73 Active Member Full Member

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    You misunderstand me I'm not looking for your opinions of your Grandfather I'm looking for unbiased reports and assessments.
    The winning streak you refer wasn't one was it, there were 3 draws in that period .

    Of those 42 wins,12 had losing records, 2 were debutees. 20 more had lost over a third of their contests and there is not a single world rated opponent on there.
    Tommy Henderson? World Class?
    Who did he ever beat who was world class?
    Which world rated fighter did he ever beat? His record when he fought Gilroy was 37-21-6! 6 of those 37 wins were over debutees and a further 10 had losing records.
    World Class? I don't think so!
    The report says Hawkins beat Gilroy very clearly,so whats the problem there?
    Cerdan ,conceding 11lbs had Gilroy down 6 times inside 4 rds before the fight was stopped come on, that's a massacre!

    Ill try and wade through the rest,sorting the wheat from the chaff
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2022
  4. thistle

    thistle Boxing Addict Full Member

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    600 REPORTS and as usual Sam, you Blank them...

    NOT my opinion - 1930's & 40's REPORTS, from Boxing's MAIN Trade Papers and National Newspapers.

    READ them and stop trying to 'divert' away from them, as you always do, hoping also to steer others from looking at them, causing feuds and constantly getting BANNED, repeatedly.

    READ the ACTUAL Reports...
     
  5. Liston73

    Liston73 Active Member Full Member

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    I'm not ignoring anything you posted a lot of stuff there and I thanked you for it.Be fair half of it is damn nigh unreadable.You made a few statements that were incorrect.
    1.Gilroy was on a winning run ,he wasnt there were 3 draws in there.
    2.Henderson was world class,he wasnt, not ever.
    I specifically asked YOU what was wrong with the Hawkins verdict?
    How about you answer that? What was wrong with the Mills win?
    Ditto!
    What wins over world class men did your Grandfather have?
    You state that in1950your grandfather was a world class heavyweight .Who did he beat to achieve this status?
    There are no feuds here ,apart from me nobody else seems to be even slightly interested in this.Iv I've no interest in steering anyone any where.
    Just tell me why all those 5 fights were robberies? Just explain why the BBBOC conspired to ensure Gilroy never fought for a British title?
    According to you Gilroy was the number 1 middleweight contender in 1939 and1940?
    That he was the number 1 lght hvy contender ,45, 46,47,48,49?

    Gilroy beat McCusker in 45 for the Scottish Area lhvy title McCusker was 45-34-4 had won just 3 of his last 11 fights and weighed 162lbs to Gilroys171lbs.
    Which class lhvs did Gilroy beat to be ranked no 1 for the years you mention?

    Hawkins was 66-1-0 inthe previosu year he had beaten Sadd, Gilroy ,and McCleave
    who deserved a title chance more than him?
    You may say that Rodericks claim to a middle weight title shot was less obvious, but he was the reigning British Welter champ and would win the Euro Welter Championship , and he proved he was up to the chance by beating Hawkins!
    Your problem, it seems to me Mr Glen is you make extravagant claims for your grandfather and his adversaries and,when called on to back them up throw a hissy fit!
    Be specific ,when should Gilroy have gotten his chance what year? Then tell me what the reason would have been for denying him it?
    I'm giving you a chance to expose all this wrong doing here why don't you take it?
    Half those links you posted are 1.unreadable or 2.fan mail from you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2022
  6. ryanm8655

    ryanm8655 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Should this be in the classic forum? May get more interest.
     
    nilrem likes this.
  7. Liston73

    Liston73 Active Member Full Member

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    I posted it there ,but apart from the grandson of Gilroy [THistle] who just put up a lot of unreadable links nobody was interested, they have heard all Thistle's stories before.
    I am trying to get down to reasons why Gilroy may have been avoided ,shunted aside ,conspired against? I'd also like a justification for the claim that Gilroy was world class from1939 until 1949! Which ranked fighters did he beat to achieve this?

    Gilroy NEVER beat a top ten ranked fighter.
    Gilroy NEVER won a title more prestigious than a Scottish Area LHvy title and that was for the vacant title against a man 45 -34-4 who had lost 3 of his last 11 fights and weighed just162lbs to his171lbs.He defended it against a guy166 3/4 to his 179.3/4 who had won 2 of his last 4 and was16-4-2.That is the standard he was fighting at.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2022
  8. Liston73

    Liston73 Active Member Full Member

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    BUMP!
     
  9. im sparticus

    im sparticus There Ye Go. Full Member

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    Do you believe Gilroy may have been avoided?
    Or are you questioning other people's reasons he was avoided.
    Either way, I think your going to struggle for much feedback outside yourself and Thistle.
    And Tbf to Thistle they seemed like unbiased newspaper reports to me. What's the need here?
     
  10. Liston73

    Liston73 Active Member Full Member

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    I'm questioning why he would have been avoided, what would the motive have been to sideline him?
     
  11. im sparticus

    im sparticus There Ye Go. Full Member

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    Obvious answer is he's a good fighter that doesn't bring a financial package to the table
     
  12. Liston73

    Liston73 Active Member Full Member

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    Was he , as his Grandson says, the stand out guy at any point ? What would he or any other challenger have to bring to the table? I thought you were supposed to get a shot based on your results not your drawing power?If your results are good enough wouldn't that make you a credible opponent in the eyes of the fans?
     
  13. EJC83

    EJC83 Boxing Addict Full Member

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  14. Furey

    Furey EST & REG 2009 Full Member

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    Bore off you mong.

    If Gilroy is the blokes grandfather then he's understandably and obviously going to be proud of his past and put him on a pedestal, like anyone would do.
     
  15. EJC83

    EJC83 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    As he's been mentioned in this thread, Athur "Ginger" Sadd was my mates great uncle. 187 wins in 250 fights, those guys were seriously hard men and rather than finding angles to put them down let's not speak ill of the dead.
     
    Furey likes this.