Why didnt Calzaghe renew his visa when Tarver, Pavlik came onto the scene?

Dawson won't even give himself credit for that.

Take an old Hopkins off slappies res and who has he got? A good win in Kessler , tough fight over bika and an average win over a ill prepared semi retired Eubanks. Face it , slappy is the great white hope. Only reason he gets a million times the cred he deserves.

 

Shame Dawson doesnt give himself credit. Its his best win and he couldnt even do it first time around like Calzaghe did.
I guess you dont know the SMW division too well as you would note Mitchell, Reid, Woodhall, Veit, Brewer, Mkertchyan and Lacy before you even come close to mentioning Bika. I guess you only know the division today as they are just existing names you note.
Seems racism is a big part of your post, which is a shame.
Any way Whopperdonginthemiddleofyourforehead, answer this.
How was Eubank semi retired? He had fought twice not long before. Off the subject a bit and an old post, but here is a comparison of Eubank and Kessler when Calzaghe and Ward both fought them.



It was Wards 21st fight, Ward was 25
It was Calzaghes 23rd fight, Calzaghe was 25

Ward won at home
Calzaghe won away

When Ward beat Kessler, Kessler was 42-1-0
When Calzaghe beat Eubank, Eubank was 45-2-2

Kessler was 31
Eubank was 31

Kessler was 8-1 in world title fights
Eubank was 17-2-2 in world title fights

It was just under 3 years since Kessler beat a world rated opponent
It was just under 3 years since Eubank beat a world rated opponent

Kessler had only fought 3 completed rounds in 1 fight in a year before fighting Ward
Eubank had only fought 7 completed rounds in 2 fights in a year before fighting Calzaghe

Kesslers only loss was clear
Eubanks 2 losses - first was very close (debateable) the second was a SD, to the same fighter.

Kessler was favourite to win.
100 years of Boxing News claims Calzaghe was underdog, I have read Calzaghe was underdog but some posters claim he was betting favourite, though.

This content is protected

Notes Eubank was a strong favourite, but dont know where the site got its info.

Both Ward and Calzaghe had dominant performances with Calzaghe scoring 2 KDs.

After the loss Kessler beat undefeated WBC champ Froch
After the loss Eubank fought WBO CW champ Thompson and lost a close decision scoring a KD. Eubank fought a return with the bigger Thompson and lost on injury when ahead. Thompson was a CW and the only fighter to have beaten D Haye.

I have read how people on ESB say Eubank was shot so -
How far past prime was Eubank to you then?
Eubank had lost a close decision to Collins, that many thought he won, had a couple of tune ups and rematched Collins to a SD, had a couple of tune ups and lost clearly to underdog Calzaghe. After that loss Eubank went up to CW and challenged world champ Thompson losing a very close decision and then rematched Thompson losing on injury when ahead. Thats Thompson who years later past his best KOd D Haye.
Consider Eubank only had 2 losses to one fighter when he fought Calzaghe, the second by SD to a world champ and was 31 then went on to challenge a big CW flooring him etc, how past his prime do YOU think he was?
Remember Kessler is Wards big win and was the same age as Eubank here and had around the same amount of fights, so is Kessler shot as well, because Kessler has a serious eye problems and was an unwell double vision suffering fighter who has been inactive for a while now due to his injury


Remember when you make silly comments about losses was G Johnson considered past his prime when years ago after losing to Hopkins he went 7-9-2 including the Hopkins loss


Enjoy

 

bailey why you chatting so much ****?

You saying Dawson ducked Calzaghe by moving up division, I disagree with this accusation of ducking, but for the sake of all them useless simlies atsch lets say Dawson did duck Calzaghe by moving up from SMW to LHW.

Coz Dawson goes on to establish himself as a top LHW without defeat and now Joe Calzaghe moves up to the LHW scene, this is when Dawson thought a fight with Calzaghe is possible.

Here is an article entitled, "Dawson 'in talks with Calzaghe'", read up on some boxing instead of boxrecing. And here is an excerpt:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/7743348.stm

The words of Chad Dawson above show his side were ready for a fight, and here are the words of Joe Calzaghe:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/7746827.stm

The words of Calzaghe show, Calzaghe didnt want it. So how can you still be blabbering and :dead regarding Dawson moving up a division, we are discussing Calzaghe vs Dawson at LHW, not Calzaghe vs Dawson at SMW. Shut the **** up with that boxrec.

Also bailey, you want to talk about Dawson going life and death with Glen Johnson has anything to do with a Chad Dawson vs Calzaghe fight being made? I think this aint boxrecing, this is you thinking Calzaghe was too good of a fighter to be in with Chad. That shouldnt be the case since Dawson was #1 ranked LHW, so he was the first in line for a shot on Joe Calzaghe's Paper belt.

Lets talk about Calzaghe's paper belt at LHW. It has been established after research of boxing scholars that Calzaghe's lineage must have a connection with Zsolt Erdei and such chain doesnt exist. Whatever contradicts with this fact must be rejected whether they are from my self. I think you will also agree that Zsolt Erdei was the Lineal Champ, and if you do agree that he was you must also agree Joe Calzaghe held a paper title at LHW.

And bailey, please do go into a 1000 word volume on why you have to mention Gavin Rees in the discussion? the **** has Gavin Rees got to do with LHW's. First you go into SMWs, and now LWW stick to the topic at hand: LHWs

 

thats Kessler the LM and MW, who couldnt acheive any success at MW but got instant success in the diluted SMW once he moved up.

See Bailey is happy to argue that Bhop is a fraud for fighting a few ATG LEGENDS from the weight division below (WTF???), but when its Calzaghe picking a merely good fighter from a division below, he doesnt notice.

He just rewrites history the way he wants it and then calls it fact.

 

no, it is IN YOUR OPINION, the opinion of Bailey, his best win. Its not the opinion of others that beating up a near 50 yearold man is a best win.

Theres a difference between your opinion and fact, as we've established.

why would you imply that the ref wouldnt have stopped the fight if Hopkins had popped his shoulder in the Calzaghe fight? Thatsd the direct implication of what you said. Remember the ref was AMerican, not a Welsh one who immediately gives Calzaghe numerous uncalled for stoppages. So maybe yes I agree that a corrupt Welsh ref in Wales would probably have ignored Bernard's shoulder and let Calzaghe go at a man with one arm, but this is America.

So please explain why you think the American ref wouldnt stop the Zaghes-Bhop fight if and when Bhop popped his shoulder during the fight? DONT SAY ' I DIDNT SAY THAT' because it is exactly what you are implying. Just explain your view or ... admit you are wrong.

Do you think the refs in America are incompetent?

 

And thats not a good idea ...?

 

It appears it is u who don't know **** about smw. Veit not fit enough to shine Bikas shoes.
Other dudes were just ok and some went life and death with calz some suffered horrible premature stoppages and others got jacked bythe pro calz ref. I swear u the only person I ever met who talks about lacy like he is an all time great.

I also enjoyed how u talked up the cat to some how spruice up calz. why was Eubanks at cw again?
Face it it was a ***** move by calz to get Eubanks wen he did and under the circumstances he did that's why nobody (besides u) gives two ****s about that win.

 

Lol

 

The Bailey logic of downplaying a fighters win because of being bloated or weight drained is a silly ideology, however it can also be applied on Joe Calzaghe himself.

Below are all of Calzaghe's SMW victims that were former MW's, LMW's or even WW's.

Kessler = Ex LMW
Manfredo = Ex LMW
Sakio Bika = Ex MW
Evan Ashira = Ex LMW
Tocker Pudwill = Ex WW
Jimenez = Ex MW
Brewer = Ex MW
Woodhall = Ex MW
Thornberry = Ex MW
Reid = Ex MW
Gimenez = Ex MW
Sobot = Ex LMW
Eubank = Ex LMW

That above is admittedly silly, however it is a bailey fundamental that if a fighter beats a smaller fighter, then you have to downplay the win. I dont go by bailey fundamentals since they are derived from 2 sources.

Source 1: Kissing Joe Calzaghe's ass
Source 2: Boxrec

BTW, I dont agree with the above, I have just used some bailey fundamentals and put them into practice by applying them to Joe Calzaghe as I know it would **** of bailey and further deteriorate his entire philosophy.

 

I have to be honest and admit that I havent read this. After you tried to convince me that 12 fight beat nobody at the time Cleverly was a bigger challenge tha Jones or Pascal who hadnt done anything and didnt even challenge (loss) for a world title until after Calzaghe retired, same as Ward and Dirrell etc, I realised that you didnt have a clue.
As posters go, you are more shot than what you claim Jones was when Calzaghe beat him, with that garbage. I gave you a chance to redeem yourself from when you said something about Cleverly being LHW lineal champ on another thread. I wont humiliate you any further and dig it out as you have taken far too much.
Shame, I used to once see you as a poster who could put challenges forward, but after comparing 12 fight novice to an ATG, it got silly.

Maybe you can come back again, but for now, I will have to deem you as shot to pieces

 

Who did Calzaghe pick from a weight below?
Kessler was a SMW champ and fully grown into the division, he wasnt a former LMW world champ who moved up for a challenge or had pedigree in another division.
Also how was SMW more diluted?
I cant believe you self pwned again HG
We do know what a ducker you are and how you will duck the question above

 

1. Chad Dawson wanted a Fight with Calzaghe at LHW.
2. Joe Calzaghe didnt want a fight with Chad Dawson at LHW.
3. Gavin Rees has nothing to do with the topic
4. You mentioning Chad Dawson's minor WBO SMW title has nothing to do with a Chad Dawson vs Calzaghe fight at LHW
5. Joe Calzaghe held a paper title at LHW

What a ***** bailey comes out to be, he reads my post and responds to it by saying:-

I used Cleverly to pad up my argument and lured you into receiving a devastating PWNage that has left you showing open cowardice by ducking the whole situation.

You have to accept the facts which are.

Antonio Tarver wanted a fight with Joe Calzaghe
Bernard Hopkins wanted a fight with Joe Calzaghe
Jean Pascal wanted a fight with Joe Calzaghe
Chad Dawson wanted a fight with Joe Calzaghe
Kelly Pavlik wanted a fight with Joe Calzaghe

(All for a shot at Joe Calzaghe's Paper title.)

BUT, Joe Calzaghe didnt want to fight them because of "Lack of Motivation"

 

Joe Cal was about cashing out and going home at that point in his career.

 

Interesting argument. On record, you can find quotes and examples of Joe 'wanting' fights with the likes of Bernard Hopkins, Roy Jones and James Toney years ago.

---------------------------------------------------------------

"A teleconference was set up in my office in New York for July 30th, 2002, and on the call was myself, Don King who was in the room, Frank ****** and Bernard Hopkins' lawyer, Arnold Joseph. Along with Arnold was a woman named Linda Carter, who was there on behalf of Bernard. We asked Arnold if Bernard wanted to fight Joe Calzaghe and we asked him how much money would he want if he did. The response we got was $3million and the fight would have to take place in the United States. After a little scratching of the head, we said 'Okay, done.' Frank ****** agreed on the spot, Don King agreed and we agreed so as far as we were concerned all parties were singing off the one hymm sheet. Arnold excused himself with Linda and I can only assume it was to call Bernard. Either that day or the next day, they came with a new demand: $6million, double the sum that had been agreed, the deal blew up.....he had then and still has no desire to fight Joe Calzaghe, that much is pretty clear.

Joe gets criticised sometimes for not having fought the big-name Americans, but in this case the fault has never rested with him."

- Jay Larkin, then Showtime TV Network's Senior Vice-President of Sports and Event Programming.





http://youtu.be/xBHwB9_dJ9s?t=28m57s

http://youtu.be/QhSxpemf838?t=26m45s


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1qeXpJlLNzs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1jVrFZDxZS0

6:45 in. "For 2 years Calzaghe has chased pound for pound number one Roy Jones, but to no avail".




Then look at Jones own comments

Former four-division champion Roy Jones Jr, speaking with The Sunday Times, responded to Joe Calzaghe's recent claim of chasing Jones for several years and being brushed aside. Calzaghe spoke with The Sunday Mirror and appeared to have some newfound hostility when Jones' name came up.

"I spent five or six years chasing Jones and he acted like he never even knew my name," said Calzaghe. "Suddenly, I beat Hopkins in Vegas and Jones wants to be my neighbor - it's ridiculous. If a fight with Jones made sense from a cash point of view, then it could happen, but he is notorious for asking for too much money."

Jones says that he viewed Calzaghe as a possible opponent several years ago, but at the time he saw no reason to travel to Wales to chase the fight. Now that Calzaghe is the bigger star, Jones is willing to make the fight anywhere.

“I saw Joe as a potential opponent a long time ago,” Jones said. “But I had my eyes on higher things, such as winning the heavyweight title, so it was nothing against Joe, I love everything about him. He’s a fun guy, an entertaining guy, a good person. We took some pictures together with his sons after the fight on Saturday and we’ve talked on the phone. But boxing is business. When I was the best pound-for-pound boxer in the world it wouldn’t have been smart for me to go and fight Joe.

”You don’t go to somebody else when you’re the best, they must come to you, so I wouldn’t take the risk, and why would I? Why would I meet that challenge when I’m already the best? Why would I go to your country and give you a chance to allow the powers that be to take a close decision and give it to you?"

Jones says a fight with Calzaghe is the best fight in boxing, even better than a possible rematch between Oscar De La Hoya and Floyd Mayweather Jr, scheduled for September.

“But right now this is the best fight out there, better than the Oscar De La Hoya-Floyd Mayweather rematch because we all know what the outcome of that fight is going to be – another win for Floyd. You don’t know the outcome of this fight, however, so it’s a fight people are going to want to see. There’s suspense, and that’s what makes for a big fight," Jones says.




Toney

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/4835884.stm


-------------------------------------------------------------------


You have to accept the facts which are.

Joe Calzaghe wanted to fight a prime Bernard Hopkins
Joe Calzaghe wanted to fight a prime Roy Jones
Joe Calzaghe wanted to fight James Toney



Of course, before you try and deny all of this, remember that I'm using your logic here

 

Salutations to you Knockout Artist a true warrior in debate, but you got the wrong end of the stick here. I think because I completely owned your Team Elite brethren in Bailey you showed the warrior spirit in rising to the occasion with spite of defending the Honour of team elite, and willing to lay it out in the ESB Square Circle, for this I have to use a smiley as a form of the 21 gun salute. :hammertime

The topic at hand is regarding Joe Calzaghe's reign at LHW with his paper belt. You have come to the topic regarding:-

Joe Calzaghe vs Bernard Hopkins during 2003
Joe Calzaghe vs James Toney pre 2006
Joe Calzaghe vs Roy Jones Jr pre 2006

As you can see, these dates and times of the potential match ups of Joe Calzaghe were at the time different to Joe Calzaghe's reign of his paper title. However since you made an effort in debate, and showed an Iron heart in staying in the ESB Square circle with me I will tell you the following.

It is true, Joe Calzaghe "wanted" a fight with Hopkins (2003). Bernard Hopkins didnt want it back in 2003. This is an established fact, Bernard Hopkins and Calzaghe both wanted it in 2008, and got it on and we know what happened.

However this is not similar to Chad Dawson vs Joe Calzaghe in 2009, I hope you understand this already but I will clarify to reduce any counters:-

1. Chad Dawson and Joe Calzaghe were in the same division, BHop was a MW while Calzaghe was a SMW.

2. Chad Dawson was the #1 ranked LHW for a shot at Joe Calzaghe's paper belt. The same cannot apply to BHop vs Calzaghe in 2003.

3. Chad Dawson said he wanted it, Joe Calzaghe said he lacks motivation. Calzaghe never said much in 2003, Hopkins went after other things more lucrative.

As you can see, Hopkins not "wanting to fight" Calzaghe in 2003, just further supports what I have been saying:-

Calzaghe didnt want to fight Dawson, he lacked motivation