Why didnt Calzaghe renew his visa when Tarver, Pavlik came onto the scene?

Salutations to you too realsoulja :good My apologies if I have the wrong end of the stick.

Of course Chad Dawson was a legitimate opponent for Joe to face, if Joe had beaten him, it would have gone down as one of his best wins. There is also no doubt that Chad Dawson wanted the fight, there is no evidence of him ducking anybody thus far (facing Hopkins, Pascal and now Ward in Oakland suggests Chad is willing to make the big fights). Secondly, Chad was a better opponent than Roy Jones at that time. However, boxing is a business, and in business, money talks. A fight with Roy Jones was worth more money.

To give you an example, Thomas Hearns could have fought Mike Mccallum in 1984, and instead opted to face a past prime legend in Duran. The fight with Duran was worth 5+million to Hearns, and greater recognition. A fight with Mccallum would have earned him 1 million at most. Despite the fact that beating a young, hungry prime Mccallum would have been worth more in terms of his legacy, but beating Duran made him more money and earned him more recognition. Hence, it made sense in this regard.

That is why you can argue the Roy Jones fight made more sense than the Chad Dawson fight, even though Jones was old, he still brought the most money to the table. I hope all of this makes sense.

It's harsh to bring up a huge list of active fighters around at the time, and accuse Joe of ducking all of these guys simultaneously (my apologies if that's not what you were doing).

My point of using those examples, was to highlight that using this logic, you can accuse Roy Jones, Hopkins and Toney of all ducking a prime Calzaghe (though I think Hopkins did).

Also, Joe did make a lot of noise about wanting to face Bernard in 2002-2003, I think he calls him out after the Will Mcintyre fight, Byron Mitchell fight and Charles Brewer fights. He also called him out in interviews, and solid (respectable) offers were made to Bernard from Frank and Joe's team.


Onto the topic of Joe not being motivated, well if you're not motivated, then you should stop fighting surely?

 

Nicely put. RJJ was the best business move available and an option Calzaghe deserved. I just wanted to see Calzaghe lose and I think Chad Dawson posed the most troubles. I think Calzaghe probably would have beaten Tarver, Pavlik and Froch. Chad though has the athleticism that would have been decisive against a 37 year old Calzaghe. But at age 37, Calzaghe bowing out by not wanting to fight the young lion may have been a decent decision.

I dont think Calzaghe 'ducked' any fighter at LHW. He had gained some territory at LHW with threats from BHop, Chad Dawson and Pascal aswell as a few others. Had Calzaghe been in his 20's and chose to give up his territory, I would have considered this a duck. Or had Calzaghe fought some random bums instead of a top LHW I would have considered this a duck also.

The thing with Hopkins vs Calzaghe in 2003 is interesting since they did eventually fight when both fighters were no longer at their best with Hopkins being way past his physical best. Both respected fighters had been defending their territories BUT they were defending their territories in separate weight classes so a clash is not something that was to be expected.

They both needed a big fight, Calzaghe still had a lot of territory to gain in the SMW division, WBC (Eric Lucas, Markus Beyer, Danny Green....), IBF (Ottke), WBA (Mundine, Ottke). While Hopkins had pretty much owned the MW scene at the time so it was more sensible for BHop to move up to SMW division.

Instead Hopkins remained in the MW division and eventually hit the jackpot by defeating Oscar De La Hoya, was this a smart business decision by Hopkins? He also set an all time record defenses at MW and did eventually fight until he lost his throne establishing himself as one of the Middleweight ATG's which has an illustrious history.

I wont consider this 'ducking' since both fighters were on different paths and were in different territories. However for the fight not happening more blame should be on Hopkins side, likewise Dawson Calzaghe not happening more blame should be on Calzaghe's side.

There are many factors that make Joe Calzaghe's decision of retirement sensible.

1. Joe Calzaghe was at an advance age.
- Although Calzaghe was still looking reasonably good

2. Joe Calzaghe had accomplish his fair share.
- However there was more that Joe Calzaghe could have added to his legacy, but this required risk

3. Lack of Motivation
- This is dangerous as it could have affected Calzaghe's preparations and his game in general.

It was a shame for boxing fans that Calzaghe couldnt give any more great fights, but if the motivation is no longer there at an advance age, and he was financially secure then it is understandable for Calzaghe to have made such decision on Feb 2009.

 

There's an interview (which I'm trynna find) in a British newspaper where joe is getting hammered for fighting bums, they ask why he won't fight jones, in is his own words he said he wont because he knows his limits. Does that sound like someone who wanted a fight?

 

"I could probably give Jones a tough fight, probably the best fight he's ever had," said Calzaghe. "But I know my capabilities and unless I got paid the crown jewels I wouldn't want to risk it."

- Words of Joe Calzaghe

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/i-am-the-best-says-honest-joe-6352495.html

Calzaghe's tune on Roy Jones Jr has fluctuated throughout the years. When RJJ began to look like a human Calzaghe was mentioning him, while RJJ was looking superman Calzaghe wanted the Crown Jewels. When RJJ was fighting Felix Trinidad, Calzaghe called him washed up in his auto biography and when RJJ looked shot to ****: Calzaghe beat the **** out of him and took a nice cheque home to cash on some coke.

 

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- Words of Chad Dawson

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/7743348.stm
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- Words of Joe Calzaghe

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- Words of Antonio Tarver

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- Words of Joe Calzaghe

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- Words of Joe Calzaghe

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/i-am-the-best-says-honest-joe-6352495.html

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[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFhan1S7vv0[/ame]

atsch

 

Fair enough, as you say you wanted to see Calzaghe lose and hence wanted to see him fight the likes of Dawson, Pavlik and Tarver, who were all stronger opponents than the RJJ that Joe fought. At the same time, you respect that Joe took the fight that was worth the most money.

Joe owed Bernard nothing, it was a terrible fight that Calzaghe edged in the eyes of most. The first fight was ugly as sin, and the rematch would have been another stinker. Agreed, if Joe had been younger and avoided all of these guys and fought the likes of old RJJ, then it would be ducking. Joe beat the young up and comer in Kessler, got his defining win over a legend in Hopkins, and cashed out against RJJ. As a fan, it's disappointing that he didn't fight a Dawson or a Pavlik before bowing out, I still think he had one or two more good fights left in him, I think he retired slightly early. However, if you're not motivated, then you shouldn't fight.

Ottke wanted nothing to do with Joe. Of course Joe could have recorded good wins over the mentioned fighters, however the fight with Hopkins represented big money, and recognition. Good analogy, BHop cleared out the MW division, and taking Joe C's '0' and winning a world title in 2 different weight classes would have been huge for his legacy (though I personally think Joe is a bad style match up for Hopkins, I think Joe always beats him prime for prime and past their primes).

I think Hopkins turned down Calzaghe as it was too high risk, at that time he was still riding the Trinidad win and all the recognition he got for it. Calzaghe was a big risk. Hopkins is a smart guy, and he picks opponents with glaring flaws, that he feels he can expose, or he brings fighters up in weight where he'll hold significant physical advantages. Joe is a bad style match up, and is a similar size to Bernard naturally. I think Hopkins turned it down because it was high risk, similar to how he priced himself out of a rematch with RJJ, because it was also too high risk.

The fight got made years later due to overwhelming public demand.

If he knew the DLH fight was in the pipeline then fair enough, I don't know how much he made for it, but it was obviously a lot more than he would have gotten to fight Joe.

By the realsoulja, you're obviously a big fan of Hopkins, what do you rank as his top 5 best wins in the MW division, and where do you rank him all time amongst the other great MW's of the past?

I agree with all of this, I still think Joe had 1 or 2 more great fights left in him, but you don't want to risk going on too long.

 

I have decided to try and give you another shot after you not for the first time made a fool of yourself by waffling on about a 12-0 prospect whos biggest win was T Oakey as a big fight for Calzaghe.
I realise that these beatings from me have taken alot out of you and reduced you to a shot poster, but I will go easy this time and ask you to answer some questions instead.
Before I do, I looked at one of your links and all it was, was a picture, and no info about Calzaghe/Dawson. I guess this is just further proof of you being shot and unable to debate. Still here goes with giving you another chance out of pity for you.

Dawson - Why do you not acknowledge the fact that when Dawson was a SMW who held a minor WBO belt to get a mandatory shot at Joe, that Dawson decided to relinquish that to fight lesser comp? Why do you not accept that?

Why do you fail to note that Tarver was coming off a loss and Calzaghe beat the fighter who inflicted that severe loss?

Why do you fail to note all of these points with Froch. You have ducked so much Soulja, try not to duck my posts anymore. I know I must have upset you for you to mention my name again with no substance, so with that Froch, why do you not note British champ that nobody really knew, who hadnt beaten anyone of note. You have to remember when the fight was.
Or acknowledge these
Seems odd. This article says Froch says no to Calzaghe

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Froch not interested in Calzaghe

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Read this Froch ducking Calzaghe

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Froch saying he couldnt beat Calzaghe on points 6:32

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1gVQow_-uA"]

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" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1gVQow_-uA[/ame]



or this post

Cont..

 

Cont... FAO Soulja



Hopkins 2 - doubt there is many that would want to see that again. No doubt Hopkins would have wanted to after his falling to the floor etc and get his pride back, but the damage was done and as you know Hopkins ducked Calzaghe those years back and hurt himself

but why would Calzaghe give Hopkins a shot after all the ducking from Hopkins he endured through the years



"Jay Larkin, head of boxing for the American Showtime television, said: "With Bernard you never know. I think he comes to us from outer space sometimes. But a fight against Hopkins is a natural for Wales and we would like it to take place here."



Larkin confirmed that Hopkins last year agreed to a purse of £1.9million to go in against Calzaghe, only to demand double the money the very next day."



http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/article-5527636-calzaghe-camp-chase-hopkins.do



"We have to get Joe to America and the right fight is Bernard Hopkins," said Showtime boxing chief Jay Larkin.



"Hopkins turned down a lot of money from us to fight Calzaghe last year, but after what Joe did to Mitchell we can up the ante and offer more."



http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/boxing/3030004.stm



.....



"Hopkins stated: "Right now I'm negotiating along with Don King and Jay Larkin of Showtime. Who we spoke to and we're going to talk to him about two fights, maybe my mandatory too, which makes it a three-fight deal.



"It would be the mandatory, Harry Simon and Joe Calzaghe. While Calzaghe fights for that other super-middleweight title, I'll wait for that and knock off Simon after the mandatory and fight the WBO title."



http://archive.southwalesargus.co.uk/2002/5/17/72933.html



....



"According to both King and Hopkins, the two worked out an agreement for Hopkins' next fight, no small accomplishment considering Hopkins spurned a $10.5 million three-fight Showtime offer made earlier this year that would have sent him into the ring to fight Morrade Hakkar, Joe Calzaghe and Harry Simon.





"He's desperate for a fight and he needs to fight me because he messed up his deal with Showtime," Jones Jr. said in the dressing room prior to Saturday's main event."



http://www.puertorico-herald.org/iss...at0635-en.html



...



Hopkins ducked him all the way up to 2007. Here's a quote from the man himself confirming it...



The original plan cooked up by Team Calzaghe was for Joe and Bernard to meet next March for a £10million showdown, according to the Sunday Mirror, but the never-at-a-loss-for-words Hopkins put a kibosh on those plans, not temporarily, but once and for all.



"Calzaghe is a good fighter but right now it would be a backward step for me," Hopkins said. "It is not a big enough fight right now and I need a big fight to get motivated. A fight against Maskaev would be exactly the type of fight I need"

...

Calzaghe has heard the news and isn't taking it lying down.



"Hopkins, to be honest, is just one of the names on a long list," he said. "[But] it's funny how the so-called big names in American boxing always have a handy reason not to fight me."

http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/...he-not-so-fast





This was after Calzaghe's masterclass vs Lacy. Hopkins didn't even bother fighting a heavyweight, he chickened out of that one too, settling for pretend heavyweight Mason Dixon coming off losing 45lbs



and as for Jones



You Tube

6:45 in. "For 2 years Calzaghe has chased pound for pound number one Roy Jones, but to no avail".

You Tube

#!

also:

*THIS VIDEO IS ON YOUTUBE: 'Roy Jones jr looks ahead to Calzaghe'*



Steve Bunce: When did Joe first pop up in a conversation?



Roy Jones: When he beat Chris Eubank I started watching him then.



Steve Bunce: 1997



Roy Jones: I knew it then...but he then kinda backed down on the opponents he was fighting so I RELEASED THE IDEA OF IT [fighting Joe].



So Jones admits he was aware of Joe early on, but wasn't interested in fighting him.





BBC, 21st November 2001.

"It's all very well being the best in the world, but you need big names for big fights," he reflects.



A fight with the Eric Lucas, the WBC champion, is a possibility, but unification fights are notoriously hard and expensive to arrange.



As is a bout with Roy Jones.



"To be honest I'm getting quite fed up with it," Calzaghe said.



A bout against the undisputed light heavyweight champion has been the subject of ongoing speculation.



"It's difficult because of the different networks involved. He's with HBO and I'm with Showtime - that's a massive obstacle in itself.



"Secondly, you've got to ask yourself whether Roy Jones would want to fight me.

"At the moment he picks his own opponents, fights the easiest guys he can and gets a lot of money for beating them.



"I'm dangerous and I can take the mega money out of his pocket. Why would he want to fight me?





Jones himself made the statement that he did not go fight him because it was too risky be it in the UK or states...he stated that on National TV while commentating on Calzaghe/Hopkins those words exactly get a copy of the fight and find out yourself....If Jones said it himself then any argument you have is out the window because Jones stated nothing about why should I have...I was ranked #1 he was ranked # whatever he said...IT WAS TOO RISKY FOR ME AT THAT TIME ESPECIALLY IF I HAD TO GO TO THE UK... he added nothing in on it....





roy jones the man who fought Richard Frazier the part time cop and then bragged about his greatness afterward....



http://www.****************/boxing-f...once-more.html



Former four-division champion Roy Jones Jr, speaking with The Sunday Times, responded to Joe Calzaghe's recent claim of chasing Jones for several years and being brushed aside. Calzaghe spoke with The Sunday Mirror and appeared to have some newfound hostility when Jones' name came up.



"I spent five or six years chasing Jones and he acted like he never even knew my name," said Calzaghe. "Suddenly, I beat Hopkins in Vegas and Jones wants to be my neighbor - it's ridiculous. If a fight with Jones made sense from a cash point of view, then it could happen, but he is notorious for asking for too much money."



Jones says that he viewed Calzaghe as a possible opponent several years ago, but at the time he saw no reason to travel to Wales to chase the fight. Now that Calzaghe is the bigger star, Jones is willing to make the fight anywhere.



“I saw Joe as a potential opponent a long time ago,” Jones said. “But I had my eyes on higher things, such as winning the heavyweight title, so it was nothing against Joe, I love everything about him. He’s a fun guy, an entertaining guy, a good person. We took some pictures together with his sons after the fight on Saturday and we’ve talked on the phone. But boxing is business. When I was the best pound-for-pound boxer in the world it wouldn’t have been smart for me to go and fight Joe.



”You don’t go to somebody else when you’re the best, they must come to you, so I wouldn’t take the risk, and why would I? Why would I meet that challenge when I’m already the best? Why would I go to your country and give you a chance to allow the powers that be to take a close decision and give it to you?"



Jones says a fight with Calzaghe is the best fight in boxing, even better than a possible rematch between Oscar De La Hoya and Floyd Mayweather Jr, scheduled for September.



“But right now this is the best fight out there, better than the Oscar De La Hoya-Floyd Mayweather rematch because we all know what the outcome of that fight is going to be – another win for Floyd. You don’t know the outcome of this fight, however, so it’s a fight people are going to want to see. There’s suspense, and that’s what makes for a big fight," Jones says.



http://www.thefreelibrary.com/BOXING...SH.-a091559984

28:52 mark

You Tube

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhSxp...tu.be&t=26m47s[/ame]

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-19059682.html


Maybe if you answer these I will give you back some of that lost credibility, a bit maybe

 

wow, had to scroll through loads of cut and paste jibberish there, gotta be a record.

yeah I dnt think anyone can blame him for retiring at his age. its just the lack of action before that retirement that is the problem.

Joe is def a HOFer, hes got those 21 wins, you see. OK half of them were welsh ref early stoppages, so maybe its only really about half that figure, more like about 10 real, legit Bhop style defences. But still thats good. 10 defences is A LOT!!

IN a way its good he didnt move up to LH early or he would have got ****ed over bad, so he did the right thing in that too. LH was formidable in the 90s and just after, but itd a lot easier to take out a 43 year old when your fitness is still near prime, so I can see why he waited. 43 lol. **** me. 43... how far had british boxing fallen?

 

He wanted to be well paid as did Jones and Hopkins. Nothing wrong with wanting money, but look at my links to Soulja, where there is actual video evidence of calling out Jones.

Also there was this from ESB Elite to Soulja on another post with regards to Joe and Jones from Joe

interesting post soldier. having heard many people quote calzaghe's autobiography with regards to jones on here, i've spent the last few days reading the book for the 1st time and found the following quotes from calzaghe much more interesting


" I was one of his biggest fans but you have to question why his performance levels completely dipped from the moment it transpired a few years ago that he had failed a drugs test in a fight in Indiana against another american, Richard Hall. All of a sudden, he fell from the premiership to league 2, from being absolutely peerless, to distinctly average "


" If I had of fought Jones at his peak and got beaten, I would feel swindled today, knowing that he had taken steroids. Its cheating, theres no other word for it, and I don't know how it managed to be swept under the carpet for a number of years and he went totally unpunished "


" If steroids can make athletes run faster, they can surely help a boxer to hit harder and to hit faster and to hit quicker and to hit for longer and this will help him to inflict more punishment, which I think is repulsive"

 

for the first time? mwhuaaa...

its been by your bedside for years.


sticky reading now.

 

You still being a *****, I have covered Chad Dawson vs Joe Calzaghe at LHW in the post you ducked.

1. Chad Dawson wanted a fight with Calzaghe at LHW
2. Calzaghe didnt want a fight with Chad Dawson.
3. Chad Dawsons minor title at SMW doesnt have nothing to do with a Dawson Calzaghe clash at LHW.

You realised to change your approach after I schooled you on the above three facts. Anyway lets see what nonsense you about to bring forth:....

I dont know what you mean, are you saying Chad Dawson ducked Calzaghe? Because Dawson gave up a shitty version of the WBO he ducked Calzaghe.

Dawson also gave up the WBC MW Youth title, who was he ducking then J Taylor or was he ducking Hopkins. atsch

Face it, Chad Dawson hasnt ducked no fighter.

Chad Dawson was the #1 LHW when Calzaghe held a paper title at LHW, Joe Calzaghe didnt want to step in the ring with Chad Dawson and Chad Dawson wanted to step in the ring with Calzaghe at LHW.

You want to go into SMW but that has nothing to do with this thread.

What has that got to do with anything?

Fact 1: Antonio Tarver wanted a shot at Calzaghe's paper title
Fact 2: Calzaghe didnt want it, because of lack of motivation

atsch Froch never said 'no' to Calzaghe, here is what Froch said from the link you posted:-

Regardless, Carl Froch called out Calzaghe after being J Taylor. Which goes onto establish the following facts.

Fact 1: Froch wanted Calzaghe
Fact 2: Calzaghe didnt want it

You dumb ****, those link dont even work

Please explain, how does Froch saying he wont beat Calzaghe on points (Froch thinks he would KO Calzaghe) is the same as Froch not wanting to fight Calzaghe?

The following facts are irrefutable:-

Fact 1: Froch wanted Calzaghe
Fact 2: Calzaghe didnt want it:deal

 

bailey you going into more **** and copy and paste mode because you have been getting owned not just by me, but by novices in herolGee and Whooper boi.

1. Hopkins wanted a shot at Calzaghe's paper LHW title
- Calzaghe didnt want it

2. Froch wanted a shot at Calzaghe
- Calzaghe didnt want it

3. Dawson wanted a shot at Calzaghe's paper LHW title
- Calzaghe didnt want it

4. Tarver wanted a shot at Calzaghe's paper belt
- Calzaghe didnt want it

5. Pascal called out Calzaghe
- Calzaghe didnt want it

And all those 5 fights I have listed above, were much more exciting fights that Calzaghe vs Roy Jones Jr.

This is my arguement.

Your arguement is:-

- But Hopkins ducked Calzaghe in 2003. Hopkins was a MW while Calzaghe was a SMW, that aint a ducking.

If that is the case, Calzaghe ducked Clinton Woods who offered Calzaghe a career high payday.

- But Froch said **** Calzaghe

Froch had been chasing Calzaghe for years, Froch needed Calzaghe to hit super stardom. When Froch realised Calzaghe is being a *****, he thought he doesnt need Calzaghe no more and moved onto bigger, and better things. Fair play to Froch, whose legacy has now overshadowed the welsh man.

- But Hopkins beat Tarver and Calzaghe beat Hopkins.

**** has that got to do with Tarver wanting to fight Calzaghe. The triangle theory doesnt work. If that was the case Calzaghe should have fought Tarver instead of RJJ.

- But Dawson moved away from SMW

And the **** has that got to do with a Calzaghe Dawson clash at LHW. Calzaghe didnt want Dawson, Dawson wanted Calzaghe. Its facts.

- Pascal

Ok no point going into Jean Pascal. I understand a Pascal vs Calzaghe fight aint going to happen in 2008/2009.

Pascal called out Calzaghe in 2010/11 anyway. But just to let you know.

Joe Calzaghe didnt want it.

 

what the ****? is bailey claiming that Froch ducked Calzaghe???


hahahahahahahaha. thats WAY beyond his usual delusions. Thats like Bailey asking someone if they like chocolate ice cream, and they yell ' NO,NO,NO,NO,NO,NO,NO,NO,NO,NO,NO!!'

1.at one constant rythym
2. at one constant pitch
3. right into his ear
4. an inch from his face

- and then Bailey replies 'oh so you do like chocolate ice cream, right.'

 

Because he didn't want to go through the trouble of beating their ass, and still getting no credit for it. . .