Why Didn't Chavez stay at 135?

I have just had a look at "The Ring" magazine which featured the review of Chavez v Ramirez, which was Chavez' last fight as a lightweight. And it seems Don King had Chavez' career mapped out. It was mainly down to money. No mention in the article that Chavez had any trouble making the weight.

 

After Chavez' win over Rosario he became the next big thing. There was talk of Chavez going straight to welterweight at that point. My guess is that he was offered a shot at Roger Mayweather's title and couldn't resist the oppurtunity to try that chin again for a third title. I'd be hesitant to say that he was ducking Whitaker, as he fought Taylor soon after going to 140.

 

The conventional answer is that Chavez wanted to go after Roger Mayweather, who was building a reputation at 140 as the Mexican assassin after taking out the likes of Rodolfo Gonzalez, Rene Arredondo and Mauricio Aceves. Mayweather was also talking **** about Chavez of course, and Chavez naturally wanted to shut him up.

He might have also made the move contemplating a possible showdown with Meldrick Taylor. Meldrick was the prodigy of the Olympics, and had a great win against p4p'er Buddy McGirt under his belt. Around 88-89, he was considered a better fighter than Pernell Whitaker, who despite all his talent, had only managed to rack up a couple of broken hands and ankle amidst a few quality wins as a pro.

For these reasons, perhaps he overlooked a possible matchup with Whitaker at 135 and went to 140.

Personally, I think these reasons helped rationalise a move for Chavez to 140, but it wasn't without the thought that Whitaker was too risky a proposition for not enough reward to entertain at the time. No doubt Chavez would have seen the Whitaker-Ramirez fight, and would have known that Pea was robbed. He would have heard about the near shutout he put on Roger Mayweather as well if not actually seen it. But without Whitaker having a belt, Chavez had little to gain from facing a potentially dangerous opponent like Whitaker. Mayweather had a belt at 140, and Chavez already took the belt at 135 that Ramirez stole from Pea.

By facing two men that Whitaker actually beat, Ramirez and Mayweather, one could argue that Chavez wasn't too keen on facing Whitaker. I don't think he was scared of Whitaker, but it made bad business sense to fight someone without a belt, who was coming off a "loss".

All that being said, I would have liked to see Chavez attempt to unify or clean out 135 seeing that 135 was his best weight class (where he looked the best). It's a hole in his career that he never unified a division, despite facing a lot of good/excellent fighters throughout it. IMO there was no real need for the Mayweather rematch and the string of fights that came after it leading up to the Taylor fight (Was the first Mayweather fight not conclusive enough? Was Mayweather beating really QUALITY Mexican fighters? Didn't Mayweather talk **** about everyone?). He should have spent that time at lightweight and attempted a move up to 140 late 1990 and tried to make a fight with Taylor early 1991.

 

Cheers.

Well, say Pea-Chavez occured late 88 or early 89, I think Pea would have been ready by then. Pea was labeled a bit of a runner after the Ramirez fight, but you have to consider: he broke his hand midway through the fight against a real strong opponent that even Chavez was forced to box around and had to resort to movement at times. A two handed Pea would have been able to hold his ground and use his offense more to keep the likes of Ramirez/Chavez at bay, even as early as 88-89. Perhaps Whitaker might not have been at his absolute peak by late 88 (he did perhaps get a little stronger near the end of his lightweight days), but he would have been near enough to it to compete and arguably beat Chavez.

It would have been a pity to miss out on the Taylor fight at 140. I think Chavez still could have got it had he moved to 140 say a year later than he did.

Not sure exactly if talks ever occured between McGirt and Chavez. Obviously McGirt was going up to welterweight pretty much as soon as Chavez went up to 140, and so they may have just missed out on the opportunity, but still, you would have thought that between 1990-1993 they would have found a way to fight each other, even if it was at a catchweight between 140-47, considering they were both p4p'ers during that time.

I would have definitely liked to see a more mature Taylor without a pre-existing cut in his mouth take on Chavez. Not sure I'd go so far as to say Taylor would be likely to win, but I wouldn't make Chavez favourite over him either.

 

As has been said; there was more attractive matches at 140. Whitaker was not considered the finish article in 88. Chavez had shown to be the 135lbs World Champ and with no one of interest left to fight, it made $$$$ sense to see a redeemed Black Mamba rematch.

 

Thats all there is to it TBooze.......

There was nobody left at 135 lbs to fight that made $$$$$ sense!

Chavez' management and promotional team would have had to have been complete morons to say, "we want to prove complete dominance at 135 lbs and take on that defensive wizard kid that was robbed against Ramirez......
.....thats like the top contenders in the Heavyweight division chomping at the bit to fight Chris Byrd, when Byrd was a contender and prime. (Byrd was never a fighter that attracted fans and money to the table)

Champions dont fight defensive stylist like Pernell Whitaker unless they are world famous and the sport is calling out for the fight. (Which means big money)
That was'nt the case back when Chavez made his move to 140 lbs!


The thing most dont know about but should know is that Pernell Whitaker's management and promotional team (Main Events) ducked
a prime and World wide consensus P4P champion JC Chavez when Whitaker moved to 140 lbs for one fight with IBF champion Raphael Pineda, and then skipped town to 147 lbs when most thought Whitaker would challenge Chavez at 140 lbs.

......I dont think its ever happened before or since......and I'll say it to the day I die.....how can an elite fighter like Pernell Whitaker skip away from a weight division that contained the p4p best fighter in the world????????





Pernell's biggest fan on this board (Sweet_Scientist)knows the story, I just though that those of you who did'nt should know!!!:hey :yep :deal

 

He did, but it's not like he skipped 140 and went on to fight some bum. Buddy McGirt was a p4p'er himself, and when you consider that he took on Chavez less than 2 years after leaving lightweight, it wasn't THAT much of a duck.

As it turned out Buddy McGirt gave Whitaker a closer fight (in most people's eyes) than Chavez did anyway.

 

Perhaps you're right. Chavez seemed to start terribly slow against Taylor, and if he did that again in a bout where Taylor was somehow more mature and didn't have the pre-existing cut in his mouth, it could have got him over the line. Of course, I would never write off Chavez, because as a true champion, he often found another gear when he needed to win.

That said, Taylor DID seem to push him to the brink, and Maybe Chavez had nothing more to give at 140 than what we saw that night. Interesting to contemplate...

 

Shows you how good Chavez was: by 93 he was 10lbs and 6 years past his best, and yet still considered the finest fighter on the planet.

 

He did'nt fight a bum Scientist, but he did'nt fight the almost unanimous consensus p4p champion in Chavez either.
Like I said, I dont thing it ever happened before or since!

 

Yes, Chavez was considered the p4p king......but he was considered that fighting at 140 lbs.

For Whitaker, he stepped up to the Welterweight division.
If memory serves me, Whitaker made the max contracted weight of 145 lbs.
Chavez fully conditioned could only max out at 142 lbs.
.....by fight time it's fair to say that Whitaker most probably added a few more pounds.
I doubt Chavez added even a pound or two from the weigh in to fight time.

There is no doubt about it, Whitaker was more suited to fight as a Welter than Chavez was, and still Pernell at least imo and that of the judges, could only muster a draw.

I cant help but speculate that had the fight been at 140 lbs, thats 5 lbs less of solid muscle that Pernell Whitaker would have had less in his body for JC Chavez to take advantage of.
Whitaker held his own when he bodied up with Chavez on the inside.....I doubt he would have done that carrying 5 lbs less of muscle!

Its only speculation now of course!:think

 

Well, Whitaker' people signed a contract to fight Chavez 14 months after he left lightweight. It's unusual that in that time he only stayed for a couple of fights at 140 and then jumped up again to 147, but it's not really unusual to not make a fight with the near consensus best fighter in the world during such a period of opportunity. Fights sometimes take years and years, and in some cases never even get made even wiht fighters fighting in the same division. I don't think the length of time concerned in which they didn't meet once Pernell left lightweight is THAT unusual. It's made to seem more unusual than it is by the fact that he quickly went up to 147.