Why Didn't Chavez stay at 135?

You can't be serious. So you're saying Chavez came into the ring 142-144 pounds?
No way in hell. He had been pretty much cut to the bone and making 140 for 4 + years. I'd say he'd have been at least 148 on fight night. And Whitaker would have been about 150. Let's not forget that Whitaker had just been removed from lightweight less than 2 years at the time. Chavez
had been there for 4 years and still looked bigger than nearly all the 140 pounders he fought there. I ask this: which 140 pounders that looked bigger than Chavez did he actually face at 140?

 

Why would Chavez climb the scales dehydrating himself to 142 lbs if he could max out at 148 lbs as you say?????

I vividly remember Chavez being questioned about his weight in the spanish newspapers right after he got off the scales......and Chavez' response was, "fully conditioned, that is what I could make, were ready to fight."

Interesting to note that fighters fighting under the Main Events banner like Melrick Taylor, Evander Holyfield, Pernell Whitaker and others had full access to the best weight training and nutritional specialist in the world.

Fighters like JC Chavez and Roberto Duran who came from the old school mold, I doubt ever lifted a weight in their life.

If Chavez cold tip the scales weighin more, I doubt he'd dehydrate himself to 142 lbs for no purpose, when he could have come in weighing the contracted limit of 145 lbs!


Btw Scientist, if Chavez had been drying or cutting himself to the bone as you say, prior to fighting Whitaker....why is it that almost a decade later he's still fighting Tszyu at 140 lbs and 12 years after in 2005 he's still fighting Ivan Robinson weighing 143 lbs??????

I know it, you know it.....Chavez was not a Welterweight!!!

 

How much of a hassle is it to rehydrate 6 pounds though? That's nothing. You don't have to have killed yourself dropping weight if you're only going to put on 6 pounds over night. I wouldn't be surprised if someone told me Chavez was weighing 148 on dight night during much of his junior welter days. Again, what's so surprising about that?

As for fighters like Chavez and Duran not doing any weights, sure, that's true, and I dare say either would have Jose Luis Castillo done any weights, despite coming into the ring 15 pounds heavier than the weight limit for most of his fights :good

 

And why was he weighing in the 150's against Willy Wise, Ken Singurani, Terry Thomas?

There's plenty of fights where Chavez was weighing like a welterweight during the early 90's too.

 

Castillo is a different story all together.....he was big for a lightweight, something that JC Chavez was not.
Castillo made a career out of doing what Arturo Gatti did, which was master the art of dehyrating and coming in at fight night with a significant weight advantage over an opponent.

It cant be said that Chavez did what Oscar Dlh made a career of doing.
It cant be said that Chavez was sucessful because he was the bigger man.....to the contrary, much of the time he was the smaller man in the ring.....Mayweather, Rosario, Taylor, Whitaker......I believe were all naturally bigger fighters than JC Chavez.

To the contrary, and I believe you will agree, size to Chavez' favor was never a factor in his greatness.

 

Yeah....and looking and fighting like **** with flab all over his body!

Chavez said it himself like I told you Scientist, fully conditioned, that was what he could make vs Whitaker......

.....against the likes you just mentioned, he was'nt conditioned period, much less fully conditioned!

 

Veering off course a bit, I think Gatti's secret was Lasix.

 

Whitaker did not duck Chavez by going to 147. He moved up to 140 to face Chavez, he had been calling him out for a while. It was hard to set up a fight between the two, since Chavez was under King and Whitaker under Duva. Whitaker was HBO, Chavez Showtime.

Whitaker stated he wanted to prove he was the best in the world pound for pound. McGirt was the next closest claimant other than Chavez. When it did not look like a fight with Chavez could be made, he decided to challenge McGirt. Just before the McGirt fight, Chavez and Whitaker's people struck a deal. They were to fight each other, whether Whitaker won or lost vs. McGirt, in the fall of that year. If Whitaker won, it would be for Whitaker's title. If Whitaker lost, it would be for Chavez' title.

 

:bush

 

Yes, Chavez peaked in 1987 against Edwin Rosario, the signs were there from MayweatherII (89) that Chavez was slipping, even if he was still rather magnificant.

 

I agree that Chavez's peak was at lightweight (as was Whtiaker's) but do you think he continued to deteriorate from say 89 to 93? I think his performacnes over this period on the whole were pretty solid and its hard to see a downward curve. He had some of his most dominant performances in 92-93 with the Camacho and Haugen demolitions. He came out looking pretty good against Whitaker too, though he did end up looking pretty bad in the second half of that fight.

 

Look at MayweatherI and II, yes The Black Mamba was a better fighter for the rematch, but Chavez made hard work of it. Even before that, against Aguilar and Ramirez he was not quite on form...

Post MayweatherII all the way on the road to Whitaker, Chavez was inconsistant compared to theamazing standards he set in 87. Fuentas was not good, ditto Smith and indeed Taylor, but Chavez showed the great ones find ways to win, when everything is not going their way.

And there were some brilliant performances, he was amazingly intense against Haugan and did a number on Camacho, it was just he was past his best.

Take Hagler; he was primmed IMO 77 though to 83 but the Hearns fight is huge part of his legacy and to a degree so is the Mugabi fight.

 

I think it was mainly due to a financial stand point at the time there was no clear 135lbs for him to fight while Taylor and Mayweather were at 140lbs. Also I believe by moving up he became the first Mexican to win world titles in three weight classes this too may have been a factor.

 

Its no secret in this forum that I scored Chavez-Whitaker a draw.

Its a matter of opinion, you saying it was a schooling is not going to make it so.

There are loads of posters on this forum that say Hopkins and Wright schooled Jermaine Taylor.....it's not going to make it so.....I agreed with the judges in all those three Jermaine Taylor fight......
....you or anybody else saying somebody was schooled does'nt make it so.

Everything is a matter of taste and opinion, nobodies word in this forum is the Gospel!

 

Sounds like a load of hogwash to me......

I followed the sport intently back in those days, reading anything boxing related I could get my hands on.....

I never heard of such a deal!!!

Quite frankly, what you said does'nt make sense, and I'm quite certain it did'nt unfold the way you described it......why the hell would Chavez fight a difficult puzzle like Pernell Whitaker if Pernell Whitaker would to be coming off of a loss to Buddy McGirt.

A loss by Whitaker to Buddy McGirt would have took all the luster off of a p4p showdown with JC CHavez.
Absolutely, I dont believe what you just described!!!


Pernell Whitaker had just made his jump to the 140 lbs division, what better way to go about getting a fight with Chavez than by tearing up that division and demanding a fight with Chavez??????

.....by going to Welter, if there was any inkling that Chavez would prefer to avoid Pernell, going to Welter would be just the excuse for Chavez not to fight him.


The truth of the story, I heard and read from Lou Duva's mouth himself.....
Up until the fight was actually signed, Duva had wanted to get Chavez to rematch Meldrick Taylor but at Welter.......stating that Pernell Whitaker was'nt just quite ready for Chavez.......

The fact of the matter is that Duva wanted no part of Chavez at juniorwelter. He knew that juniorwelter was a comfortable weight for Chavez.

To make a long story short, Main Events and the Duva's planned it all along.....not only did they not want Pernell Whitaker fighting Chavez at 140 lbs......right after Chavez layed one of the biggest slow beatdowns in boxing history on Meldrick Taylor.....
.....Taylor wanted revenge, but the Duva's smart enough, quickly moved Taylor away to Welter and hoped that Chavez would follow.

The Duva's would have preferred it be Taylor fighting Chavez at Welter, but when Taylor got beatdown by Terry Norris and then Chrisanto Espana.....that plan went out the window.
.......as a result, the Duva's had to go to plan B, which was to match Pernell Whitaker with Chavez, but at Welter where the Duva's felt that might not be Chavez best weight.


I cant blame the Duva's....they were smart and played it correctly for their fighter......
They initially thought that Taylor would be too strong and fast for Chavez as a 140 pounder......
....but when they saw first hand what Chavez did to Meldrick Taylor as a Junior Welter, they wanted no part of him at that weight!

The Duva's plan all along since the minute Chavez beatdown Meldrick Taylor was to land Chavez at Welter, and they accomplished that goal, just not with who they originally wanted Chavez to fight there with.

No question about it, the Duva's ducked Chavez at 140 lbs, they wanted no part of him there.


......and before anybody here goes into a frenzy, notice that I said the Duva's ducked.....not Pernell Whitaker ducked, or Meldrick Taylor ducked!